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    #1

    Heer Flak - Opinions

    In my quest to find a Heer Flak badge for my collection I came across this one.

    I think it’s a copy.

    A Post War Souval..............maybe?

    In Garlasco’s book he indicates that the only Heer Flak badge where the eagles wing
    does not touch the barrel of the gun is the Unknown Maker. This maker uses a pillow crimp on their hinge and catch. Unless there is a variation on this maker that is not listed in the book then I think the badge is wrong.

    I would appreciate comments from our members that know Flak Badges. My experience
    with them is limited.

    Thanks,

    Wayne
    Attached Files
    Tags: None
    #2
    Reverse.
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      Vienna maker - A repro for sure
      The other accepted original with the eagle's wing not touching the gun barrel, except the Pillow Cripm is GB!

      Comment

        #4
        Thanks Lubo.

        I thought it might be.

        Wayne

        Comment

          #5
          Hi guys,

          Wayne, can you show any more pics of the hardware?

          I wonder if this is a reproduction? I like the obverse details and the "look" of the reverse hardware based on these pics. The horizontal marks on the revers of this badge are very similar to those found on "flatback" PABs, which are also the "vienna design". The hardware is also a match too, note the small rectangular catchplate, very common to the "vienna" deisgn PABs and unmarked GABs.

          I definately would not dismiss this badge and personally feel it might very well be original.

          Tom
          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

          Comment

            #6
            I like it. Please provide us with more pictures.
            Kind regards,
            Giel

            Check out our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Giels-Milit...5292741243193/

            Comment

              #7
              Hi guys,

              Here are a few "flatback" PABs to showcase how similar the horizontal marks are on the reverse of these badges. Also notice the very similar hardware. The silver ones are curteousy of Van Hass' collection, and the bronze is mine.

              It is also interesting to note that many flatbacks exhibit sawcuts around the tank and wreath, which falls perfectly in line with the cuts we see on these unmarked "vienna" army flak badges.

              Tom
              Attached Files
              If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

              New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
              [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
              Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

              Comment

                #8
                Bronze "flatback" PAB
                Attached Files
                If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                Comment

                  #9
                  I think also coming into play here is the "Deschler" CCCs. I had made a connection to Deschler to these CCCs in the CCC book, and its possible that the flatback PABs (and this heeresflak) might also be Deschler. Deschler is not located in Vienna, but it something we should just keep in mind for future research into the subject of these "flatback" badges.

                  1. Deschler CCCs are the only ones that are completely flat. Interesting that the these PABs and Heereseflaks are also completely flat, no curvature what so every, unlike the vast majority of other PABs and flaks.

                  2. Similar horizontal line patterns on the reverse.

                  3. Hand saw file marks are seen on this flak, on the flatback PABs and also these Deschler CCCs. These CCCs are the ONLY maker to feature saw cuts, which can be seen under the swastika in the central motif.

                  4. Example of 1 of these PABs was found marked L/10 (in the collection of Mike12250 I belive).

                  5. Flatback/Rockly PAB shares the Vienna design along with flak badge and the "Deschler CCC" (Same obverse design as Souval & Hobacher CCCs).

                  Here is one of my Deschler CCCs

                  Tom
                  Attached Files
                  If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                  New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                  [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                  Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Notice the same horizontal lines on the reverse of the CCC. Here is a shot of the central motif, exhibiting tiny saw marks under the swastika and around the leaves.

                    I think there is a very good posibility that all these badges were made by the same maker. Whether is infact Deschler or not can still be debated, however I show some really good circumstantial evidence for this connection in the CCC book.

                    Tom
                    Attached Files
                    If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                    New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                    [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                    Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                    Comment

                      #11
                      These are the only pictures available. No close ups of the hardware.

                      There are other Heer Flak badges where the eagles wing does not touch the
                      gun?

                      Thanks everyone for your help. I have learned a lot.

                      Wayne

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Here is another picture from the site.

                        Look at the claws of the eagle.

                        Do they not look like what you would see on a piece made by Souval?

                        Wayne
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Hi Wayne,

                          Your badge was not made by Rudolf Souval. It just happens to have a very similar obverse design, what is referred to as the "vienna design" because it was used by Vienna makers such as Rudolf Souval and Wilhelm Hobacher.

                          Yours is likely made by an independent maker, who was also probably responsible for the "flatback" PABs, etc.

                          Tom
                          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                          Comment

                            #14
                            OOOPS, sorry to mislead you Wayne!
                            Thats what happens when the moderators are not 24/7
                            No badge should be dismissed from the first glance, like I did! This is the way to fill out the gap in our knowledge with the constantly popping out unknown originals
                            My BAD

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Thanks Guys I'm learning a bunch.

                              Wayne

                              Comment

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