Panzerjäger award question

[DaveNZ]

Guys

im getting slightly obsessed working out who got the PAB in silver or bronze and who got the GAB.

OK who gets the PAB is silver is pretty straight forward.

The GAB I think ive got a grip on.

however what guys would have qualified for the PAB in bronze is still a little murky for me.

would a Panzerjäger qualify for the PAB in bronze? Or the GAB?

[Don D.]

Panzerjaeger got the bronze. So did the scout car crews.

[fischer]

Hi Dave

Here is my basic understanding...

The PAB in bronze was for members of Panzer-Grenadier Regts. and Medical personnel who rode into combat in an armored vehicle. Personnel assigned to Armor Cars were also authorized to wear the bronze PAB.

The GAB was for Engineers, Artillery, Anti-Tank and Anti-Aircraft personnel that served along side the Infantry during an Assault and were not eligible for the Infantry Assault Badge.

Best Regards, fischer

[Blued]

The PAB in bronze was for members of Panzer-Grenadier Regts. and Medical personnel who rode into combat in an armored vehicle. Personnel assigned to Armor Cars were also authorized to wear the bronze PAB.

Hey Fischer, to dig deeper, I believe the bronze PAB was for the soldiers who drove the armored transport vehicles (half-tracks, etc), and the bronze IAB was for the infantry soldiers that were transported by said vehicles.

Because of that I believe the Panzer Jaeger would be qualified for the bronze IAB.

I may be wrong though, I always mixed the two badges in my head. One piece of supporting documentation, is that I recently picked up a picture of a soldier wearing a bronze PAB and drivers arm patch, signifying the drivers would get the bronze PAB.

From a previous discussion:

Non mechanized infantry based units = IAB Silver

Mechanised units
Crew = Bronze PAB
Passengers = Bronze IAB

~Chad

[Lexy]

I think Fischer is right Chad, Panzergrenadiere and panzerjager got the bronze PAB, not the IAB.

[Don D.]

I thought the bronze IAB was for motorized infantry, not panzerjaegers.

[DaveNZ]

I thought the bronze IAB was for motorized infantry, not panzerjaegers.

Thanks for the input guys

don: yes thats what I thought too

[Bruce Simcox]

Hi Dave......

......I believe Don has it nailed.

I thought the bronze IAB was for motorized infantry, not panzerjaegers.

Why, one might ask? I have seen images, in the photo Forum, that show Panzerjagers, on foot, wearing what(in black and white anyway) look to be bronze PAB's, whilst in the company of Panzerkampfwagen V's(Panthers).

So, to answer your question: The Panzerjagers wore the bronze PAB.

Hope this helps.

[stewy]

PZ Jagers? Did these crews not receive the GAB,at least in the early years. Stewy

[Don D.]

Jagdpanzer crews were considered assualt guns I believe so the anser would be yes. Not to be confused with panzergrenadiers/jaegers which were the armored infantry.

[DaveNZ]

......I believe Don has it nailed. Why, one might ask? I have seen images, in the photo Forum, that show Panzerjagers, on foot, wearing what(in black and white anyway) look to be bronze PAB's, whilst in the company of Panzerkampfwagen V's(Panthers).

So, to answer your question: The Panzerjagers wore the bronze PAB.

Hope this helps.

guys the fog in my head is thickening i thought Panzerjaegers were the guys in the tank hunting vehicles?

[stewy]

guys the fog in my head is thickening i thought Panzerjaegers were the guys in the tank hunting vehicles?

Dave,that's what i thought/think. As such i believe that all Assault gun crews (STuG,PZ Jager,Marder etc). Were awarded GAB's. Then late on PKA's. I'm most likely wrong though. Stewy

[Steve P]

Jagdpanzer crews were considered assualt guns I believe so the anser would be yes. Not to be confused with panzergrenadiers/jaegers which were the armored infantry.

Hi Dave,

I think Don is correct here and that with Fischer's, Don's, Stewy's and Chad's answers we are getting close.

[Steve P]

Hey Fischer, to dig deeper, I believe the bronze PAB was for the soldiers who drove the armored transport vehicles (half-tracks, etc), and the bronze IAB was for the infantry soldiers that were transported by said vehicles.

Because of that I believe the Panzer Jaeger would be qualified for the bronze IAB.

I may be wrong though, I always mixed the two badges in my head. One piece of supporting documentation, is that I recently picked up a picture of a soldier wearing a bronze PAB and drivers arm patch, signifying the drivers would get the bronze PAB.

From a previous discussion:

Non mechanized infantry based units = IAB Silver

Mechanised units
Crew = Bronze PAB
Passengers = Bronze IAB

~Chad

Chad,

I believe this is correct mate, just one addition I would make is that of the (non-mech) Motorised Infantry units who also wore the Bronze IAB. This included the drivers and mounted infantry. Mounted support troops were awarded the GAB.

[Blued]

Hahha, agreed, you can kind of go cross-eyed.

Dave,that's what i thought/think. As such i believe that all Assault gun crews (STuG,PZ Jager,Marder etc). Were awarded GAB's. Then late on PKA's. I'm most likely wrong though. Stewy

Just to clarify on an earlier point, I agree all assault gun crews (STuG, Marder etc) were awarded GAB's.

However, I interpreted Panzer Jaeger as the guys stalking on foot with Panzerfausts, grenade bundles, etc. In addition, I believe the Panzer Jaegers were the guys operating the anti-tank guns (like the PaK anti-tank gun, basically non-motorized). If we follow the logic earlier, this means they were not driven in (mechanized), thus they would not get the bronze IAB, but rather the silver

So, in conclusion, I think
1)the guys stalking with Panzerfausts and pushing/firing the PaKs (Panzer Jaegers IMO) would get the silver IAB
2)the crew getting transported by halftracks (mechanized infantry) would get the bronze IAB
3)the guys in the StGs, etc would get the GAB.

I just don't think the guys driving this armor would get the bronze PAB. I thought these bronze PABs were for the crews of half-tracks and such.

********I think the last caveat is WHEN the badge was issued as regulations for the GAB changed overtime. Remember, the GAB changed after March 1942 as explained in Frank's book, Page 15. "It must be noted, that prior to the creation of the Tank Destruction Badge on March 9, 1942, the General Assault Badge was awarded for the combined single-handed destruction of eight or more armoured vehicles." Which in my mind is a very good definition of a Pnzr Jgr




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