CCC AGM u K

[mads]

reverse:

[Paul Massucci]

........ take a good look at this oakleaf on mine, then on yours (with the eagle die flaw). Our leaves match exactly! The obliteration is on mine and yours, as well as 2 distinct dents on 2 separate veins in the same leaf......... Tom D.

Hi Tom,
I knew there was something to look for on the obverse but I couldn't remember what is was and now that you posted it if I remember correctly and I may be wrong ,I pointed out something with the left/hinge side leaves years back in discussion with you. I kind of remember posting pic of the above badge with arrows pointing to it but that pic would be on the hard drive of my "fried" PC. It's a bitch having an ilness that screws with the memory just 10min ago I pulled out my only CCC an FB& L and 5 mins, later looking for where I had put it, when I got up from my chair to look it fell to the floor,being it was on my lap the whole time
having said that ,
Philippe,
here's the front of the above, tryed to blow up the mm and other details as I don't own this badge anymore but the original pics won't take to enlarging with lost of detail.

[Philippe DB]

Dear Tom,


Thanks for trying to shed some light in the darkness. I completely agree with you that the confusion with these AGMuk ccc's is the result of different companies all manufacturing the same badge, probably starting from one design but all of them using a mixture of available reverse hardware, crimping techniques and maybe even finish. Even when the dies were a perfect match when production started (which for me is already hard to believe)they would all develope there own wear pattern making things still a little more confusing.

Anyway I'm quite happy with my little variant and I hope the same goes for everybody else.

KR
Philippe

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

I'm a bit lost

On the oak leaf thing, is mine missing this ??

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

the whole front

& what is the eagle die flaw for us beginners ??

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

mads

The back of yours looks very similar if not the same as mine when looking at the lettering - hope that's a good sign for both of us

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Paul, I am very sorry to hear about your illness, I didn't know anything was wrong. I hope it doesn't affect you too badly my friend.

I looked through all my files this morning, but cannot find anything about the LEFT oakleaves on Gablonz, but I do remember us having several conversations and showing pics on our F&BLs and all the little flaws to look for on these. The Gablonz obverse you show Paul, appears to have the flaw on the RIGHT oakleaf as I discussed earlier along with mine and Philippe. Yours also appears to have the start of the die flaw adjacent to the eagle's head, so it would probably be in between mine (no flaw) and Philippe's (full flaw) in a timeline of production.

Craig, on your silver CCC, yours does not have the flaws we are talking about. Your oakleaf has a full vein. As I stated earlier, this is definately not an absolute and I think your Gablonz is fine. The die flaw near the eagle's head is a blob of excess material to the right of the eagle's head. You cannot miss it if your has it. Philippe's is pretty distinct, and maybe he can post a closeup of his.

Mads, I think yours looks OK too. If you can post a closeup of the Right Oakleaf and the eagle, I could give you a better opinion, but from what I can see on the pics you provided, it looks good so far.

Tom D.

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

thanks Tom

Cheers - you learn something everyday

[Thomas Durante]

Philippe, I think we have some good proof that this conglomoration for manufacturers shared everything and thats why we have so many variants. Our 2 badges have the EXACT same obverse, with the exception of the die flaw next to the eagle's head. This means that had to be from the same die, just different periods of time. It seems to me that at least 2 firms used this same obverse die, but used differnt reverse dies. I don't think 1 firm would use the obverse die, but have 2 different reverse dies, therefore there were at least 2 firms involved. Maybe this conglomoration of firms all chipped in for the obverse die, but had there own reverse dies and just shared the obverse.

Tom D.

[Pascal H.]

p.s., Pascal, that is an exceptional Gablonz CCC! Very good find.

Thank you Tom.
Pascal

[Philippe DB]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!


I'm going to stop reading this thread, every picture posted just raises so many new question's

I agree with you on the die flaw to the right of the Eagles head, clearly developing on Graigs badge but this only confuses me.

Graigs CCC has different crimps than mine or your badge. We just agreed that your and mine probably came out of the same die based upon the flawed veins in the right Oakleave that aren't present on Graigs badge. This is just to complex for MY little brain.

Also I can't believe that different companies would have shared an obverse die even if they were part of the same conglomorate. That would mean that each company received half finished CCC's to than do whatever they wanted with them to make the finished product . Does that make sense?

KR
Philippe

[Roman]

Hi everybody,
Thanks for your opinion.
That's a pity that you didn't like my CCC .
I would like to show one more.
Hardly want to know your opinion as usual.
KR,
Roman

[Roman]

adler

[Roman]

revers

[Roman]

hersteler1