As Pab

[Den]

HI Guys.
I saw this threat on the 'German Daggers' forum, got me curious also.
I agree with those who say that this pab is a fake, but what I would like to
know is 'why is it a fake' ? by that I mean who made this badge and when, ther a so many of them around and so very well made and very convincing, couldn't
there be an other die used by AS during the war, why then couldn't they be
original ?
happy newyear. Dennis

[Den]

reverse

[Den]

other

[Don D.]

Hinge is wrong style. Catch is wrong style, makers mark is in the wrong place. The mark should be on the reverse of the swaz. It also appears to be a flat back badge which is wrong.
Don

[keifer kahn]

Apart from dons answer,which covers most points,these are made from a weird alloy.
they certainly arent brass and defiantely not zink.They bend with a fair amount of pressure and stay bent till you rebend them.When i say bend,im not talking lead softness.They do have some integral strength but nothing comapared to genuine badge.All my genuine Iab,s and Pabs feel very durable compared to this badge.
Zink as we know is fairly brittle and has some flex.Bend a zink badge too far and it will snap.These dont snap and feel as if you kept working them back and forth they would just tear off at the weakened point.
I feel they are high content lead alloy.basically a modern version of potmetal.
On the other hand even period potmetal felt as strong as quality zink.

I dont recomend bending badges but i had one of these,knew it was a dud and thought id try out its strength quality.
Not even close to a genuine badge.

[John T]

Hi Den: The other two fellows have given you pretty good answers.

I do not know who made the badge or when but they started to appear in large numbers maybe ten years ago or so and I suspect they are made in Austria or Germany.

At a recent show that I went to I saw about 30 panzer badges and maybe 25 were no good. The fakers have gotten more creative in their markings since the one that you have posted first came onto the market. I do not mind seeing fakes at a show--that is a part of life-- but what I would like to see are some real pieces too and they are getting harder and harder to find.

John

[Frank Heukemes]

One thing hasn´t been mentioned yet: The whole OBVERSE design is wrong for a AS PAB, because this fake is based on a casting of a Hermann Aurich PAB.

It is assumed that this fake came from the same source as the fake Aurich PABs with ball hinge.

Cheers, Frank

[Peter Wiking]

Hi Den: The other two fellows have given you pretty good answers.

I do not mind seeing fakes at a show--that is a part of life-- but what I would like to see are some real pieces too and they are getting harder and harder to find.

John

That reminds me about a friend i had some 15 years ago. He collected the German Navy WW 2. When he spoted fakes at sellers tables he used to look them in the eye, asking: so where do you keep the originals ?

Peter Wiking

[J Temple-West]

As a point of reference, here's the fake Aurich that Frank mentions..

[Frank Heukemes]

Thanks John, perfect!

Cheers, Frank

[Den]

I allways get the answers I want from this forum, thank you all !!
Best wishes. Dennis

[pete777]

As pab

One more thing-
I.ve had one of them about 10 years ago I hate to say,
Well the hinge has been attached to the body by glue...
Otherwise a nice copy, I.ve kept it original for couple of years

[Den]

Wow, this is a very old thread, thank Philippe for the pab books.