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    #46
    Hi Neil,

    Thank you for your explanation, this is just perfect and really sums up the whole thread.

    Regards,

    Anthony

    Comment

      #47
      Is there a chemist in the house?

      Hi Guys,

      Rather than starting a new thread I found it a good idea to add a little epilogue to this thread.

      When Anthony started this thread I just bought my first Buntmetall Assmann PAB on the e-stand and was waiting for it to arrive. I read the thread with a lot of interest because I never had seen this type of Assmann PAB before and didn't even know they exited.

      Today my Assmann finaly arrived and I couldn't believe my eyes, I didn't just buy a nice Silver buntmetall Assmann PAB but the Silver kupal brother of the bronze PAB's posted in this thread.

      The first thing I noticed was the weight of course. This badge only puts 10,8 grams to the scale and the second thing I noticed (just like Jan also described in one of his earlier comments) was how thick it was compared to normal hollow buntmetall badges. It looks like it's hollow but it feels like it's massive. I know this probably sounds strange but the guys who have one in their collection will certainly know what I'm talking about.

      However now that I have the opportunity to handle one myself I noticed a couple of things that I'm not able to expain myself and didn't notice as such when looking at the pictures Jan an Anthony posted.

      In his last explanation Neil told us that aluminium as a base metall is dificult to apply finish to an that there fore a copper coating as used. Now when you look at the third picture I'm going to post there are two different tones under the silver visible. On is more red like I would expect to see on a Kupal badge (cfr left side of the track) and the other is clearly a gold or yellow tone (cfr headlights).

      When you look at the reverse there is also a clear difference in finish compared to the bronze versions. Certainly on the left upper side the same gold/yellow tone is visible. This isn't the case with the bronze examples. Where ever they show some wear the bright shiny silver aluminium becomes visible.

      And than the last thing I would like to find an expanation for is the very dark patina that developed only on the reverse of this badge. A type of patina I never saw on another badge and that IMO developed in the same way on Anthony's badge but is less visible due to the bronze base finish.

      So is there anybody who can give me an explanation on the different coatings applied to the copper and aluminium of this badge and can explain if the development of such a patina is related to the different alloys used in the production of this badge?

      Thanks in advance

      KR
      Philippe
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #48
        Reverse
        Attached Files

        Comment

          #49
          Different coatings visible under the silver finish
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #50
            Reverse with the unusual black patina and the gold/yellow coating shining through
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #51
              And finaly the "Kupal Sandwich"
              Attached Files

              Comment

                #52
                Hi Phillippe !
                Great Assmann "Cupal" PAB in Silver .

                Jan Arne

                Comment

                  #53
                  Hello Philippe,

                  Congratulations on your new PAB, it is good to see a Silver one as well.

                  I am wondering what the badge that Neil has is made out of? at 18 can it be ALUMINIUM? I was waiting for Lorenzo to answer this question, can anybody help?

                  Regards,

                  Anthony

                  I have 5 new PAB's on the way, I will post them as they come.

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Hi Anthony !

                    WOW ! 5 PAB`s in post . Please post when you have them at your place .
                    HMMM! You beat me with one , only got 4 PAB`s in post . But at last I found one L/53 and one with the unike hinge and catch system .

                    Jan Arne

                    Comment

                      #55
                      Message for Neil

                      Originally posted by ngs3
                      I agree! KupAl is a term used to designate a material layered with copper (kupfer) and aluminum. Aluminum is notoriously difficult to color or add a finish to. Copper is an excellent material for finishing with metallic coatings. Hence the mechanical binding of copper to an aluminum core. The aluminum is strong (and light weight), the copper is malleable (soft) and takes a good finish.

                      Aluminum badges are anodized, which is (or was) the only method of permanently finishing them. Because aluminum was comparively rare and expensive--both as material and to work, requiring very high temperatures to melt. They are uncommon.

                      Neil
                      I apologize for jumping in with a unrelated topic.

                      Hi Neil,

                      I got your PM unfortunately my computer locks up when I try to reply. Please E mail me at this address:

                      jpool412@satx.rr.com

                      Its reference Wach Rgt Gd album.Regards Jim

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Hi all,

                        Another kupal hollow Assmann PAB, just recently in. It does not look like it had a true bronze-like finish applied over the copper. Looks like it just had the copper shined up to be a bronze grade badge. However, there is bronze finish on the fittings, so maybe there is a thin shiny bronze finish on the front. Sure is coppery, though.

                        60.3mm x 42.0mm weight 13.2g.

                        Regards,
                        Greg
                        Attached Files
                        sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
                        www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

                        Comment

                          #57
                          The back and logo closeup.

                          P.S. Thanks, AL!

                          Regards,
                          Greg
                          Attached Files
                          sigpicFacebook "Tigers in the Ardennes" book page
                          www.facebook.com/TigersintheArdennes

                          Comment

                            #58
                            Dear Greg,

                            Stunning beauty, congratulations on a very nice find

                            KR
                            Philippe

                            Comment

                              #59
                              Hello,


                              does somebody of you know, if this PAB in silver is an unmarked Assmann?

                              It is 13,7 gramm

                              Stefan

                              <img src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/stedos789/panzer%20silber%20hohl%201.jpg">
                              <img src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/stedos789/panzer%20silber%20hohl%202.jpg">

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Hi Stefan,


                                No it's not an unmarked Assmann. As far as I'm concerned it's the second pattern of the unknown maker that produced the cut-out swas PAB's.

                                KR
                                Philippe

                                Comment

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