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**Ron Birch** · 03-22-2002, 01:21 PM

Hello Frank,

I may be going out on limb on this comment but I have seen this catch before on a IAB. It came along with the infamous L14 gold would badge. The IAB seemed like it came hot off the press and I returned the item, one of those that just didn't seem right and later found out that the dealer sold many fakes. For me personaly I don't like the catch. Also have seen some on wb's

**Warren O** · 03-23-2002, 06:26 PM

Frank
Your badge is a perfect, beautiful example of an early stamped GAB. Probably has a bronze base metal, the catch is fine, I like to see this type catch on IAB's and GAB's of early issue. I wish mine had all the finish like yours.

**mott5ranch** · 03-23-2002, 07:51 PM

There are some that do not like this catch assembly. It is thin and easy to make(or copy) however I have seen many of these over the years. I have mixed feelings on this baby. Both Ronny and Warren are sincere in their opinions, and they both carry alot of weight as far as I am concerned. Both are very knowledgable in this insane hobby. I think it all boils down to weights. I had an old collector pass that on to me and I never forgot it. The Germans were famous for precision. I feel we should not only look at the details, which the copy cats do also, but check out the weights. My theory holds true especially for Knights Crosses and EK 1 awards. I feel it may hold true in these as well. Just my 2 beers worth.

**Ralph A** · 03-23-2002, 08:32 PM

from the peanut gallery

I don't know if this helps or not, but I have a PB (Assmann), die-stamped, hollow back, with the exactly the same catch.

I was told the badge came from Detlev originally and I was also told the catch may be a replacement!

One beer's worth.

**Mark S.** · 03-23-2002, 09:11 PM

I thought that catch rang some bells, and they werent the alarm kind. Here is an IAB I got from Detlev a long time ago, and it too is of the nickel silver type metal. It was kind of grungy when I got it, so I took a soft cloth to it, and now it gleams like polished silver. I didnt go crazy with it, just a little soapy water to remove the crud. I stopped while I was ahead, but if you look at the back you can see the crud I refer to. It too has the same type catch.

I tried to catch the metallic properties of the badge, like in Franks picture, but this is the best I could do. In real life it has the same look as Franks badge.

**Mike Kenny** · 03-24-2002, 07:39 AM

Hi,

I have absolutely no problems with this style of catch, although I have heard that some reproductions use it. This style of catch was used on wound badges as well, mainly the stamped ones though. The early solid nickel-silver and tombak wound badges used a chunkier catch with less than half the contact area at the base of the catch compared to the 2 catches imaged above (more like a lower case "r" - no base stroke on the "r" than upper case "C" or "G" catches with flattened bases).

Mark, that is a really nice IAB. The hinge/pin/catch assembly has everything I look for on these early stamped badges - the pin has a bend in it at the hinge end (lowering the pin to at or below hinge level), the two hinge segments do not appear to be equal, the pin is blunt and the inside of the catch appears hand-cut. The detail on the obverse is excellent. The hinges and catches that I have seen previously have been tombak and the pin nickel-silver (or similar) - I only recall seeing worn ones however which show evidence of having the original finish (silver in this case) worn off - your hinge looks unworn but the tombak is partially exposed on the catch.

I am unsure about Frank's badge though as the cut-out between swastika and the bayonet/hand grenade is poorly formed. On my stamped GAB these areas are elongated triangles with dead straight sides, sharp points to the triangles and they are die struck that way. The detail on the acorns seems lacking as well - this may be due to a different manufacturer, later period of manufacture or insufficient imagery though.

Personally, I think that Mark's example is very early. As the war progressed, the quality of the solder used seems to have decreased, ultimately requiring the use of baseplates - ie large surface areas for bonding the hinge/catch to the badge. Mark's example, and others like it (I have a tombak GAB and tombak IAB in bronze) have NO integral hinge/catch baseplates and use mimimal amounts of solder yet are rock solid 60 or so years after manufacture. My IAB only has 2 to 3 square millimeters of contact between the hinge and the back of the badge (think about it!). What I can't quite make out is whether Frank's badge has the base of the hinge flattened to form a baseplate - if it doesn't I'd be much more comfortable with it.

One further minor point, from what I've seen of early stamped Assmann marked IABs & PABs (ie with the stylised A in relief on the reverse), a roundwire "C" catch with a flattened base was used - not the type of catch this thread deals with.

Regards
Mike K

**Ron Birch** · 03-24-2002, 11:01 AM

So now that I have read some responses to the badge, can someone identify the maker? Would the wings maybe help in this matter?

**Warren O** · 03-24-2002, 07:39 PM

Although not visible on the scan these GAB's have some super detail the acorns are smaller than an IAB so its difficult to tell.
I,ve had my badge since 1969 and acquired it with several other items at the same time.

**Warren O** · 03-24-2002, 07:42 PM

Front side, unfortunately no finish.

**Ron Birch** · 03-25-2002, 08:33 AM

Well it seems that Warren has the same badge as Frank and has had this badge for quite awhile.

Snce the badge has a broad ring around the leaves plus there is a difference in the wings could this be attributed to a certain maker. Any guesses?

**Mike Kenny** · 03-25-2002, 09:10 AM

Hi,

Warren, I'm not saying what I was up to in 1969 but lets put it this way - you made me feel very young!

Based on the age of your badge, I'm now putting the differences between yours/Frank's badge and my own down to manufacturers' variation. My badge (scans attached, "silver" plated tombak with quite a bit of the tombak exposed on the high points) definitely came from a different set of dies as there are too many subtle differences between your example and my own. The differences in the "cut-out" areas should also be readily apparent.

As to who made them, I have no idea but personally I don't think it was Assmann if that's any help!

Regards
Mike K

**Warren O** · 03-30-2002, 01:16 AM

Hi Mike,
Your badge is really nice love the finish, another thing different about yours and mine is the eagles beak.
As far as age goes I was only 11 when I traded some US Military ranks patches for it on the school playground. I think I got the better deal!
Warren

**Frank Heukemes** · 04-09-2002, 05:47 AM

Thanks to you all for your answers, great to see the same badge in your collection, Warren!

Cheers, Frank

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Hollow print GAB, what about this catch?

Hollow print GAB, what about this catch?

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