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Billy Kramer

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    #16
    If you believe that this is an original, The only chance to find some people that know more about them are in a different section.

    But Looking at his other items he is offering I see items that I do like, but also many I have at least really big doubts with.
    So I would be very carefull !

    Comment

      #17
      Originally posted by LuckyLuudje View Post
      If you believe that this is an original, The only chance to find some people that know more about them are in a different section.

      But Looking at his other items he is offering I see items that I do like, but also many I have at least really big doubts with.
      So I would be very carefull !

      I believe that the planchet is struck from the original die, but I DO NOT know when. I am NOT saying that this planchet is ORIGINAL or of pre 1945 manufacture.

      Chuck

      Comment

        #18
        The pictures with the yellow squares are of the original badge sold to Stephen Wolfe. The ones marked with the red squares are the example I presently have on hand.

        Chuck

        PS: The WIEDMANN logo came from an earlier WAF thread that I added to my files.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by vonStubben; 04-04-2009, 07:08 PM.

        Comment

          #19
          Chuck, this is very interesting.
          But I really advice you to start a new thread in the appropriate section.

          Sadly you didn't save the link. I really want to know what the price for this was.

          But looking at all the other items that he tries to sell as original, like this $1950 badge doesn't give me a feeling of a trustfull seller (and member).
          Attached Files

          Comment

            #20
            Originally posted by LuckyLuudje View Post
            Chuck, this is very interesting.
            But I really advice you to start a new thread in the appropriate section.

            Sadly you didn't save the link. I really want to know what the price for this was.

            But looking at all the other items that he tries to sell as original, like this $1950 badge doesn't give me a feeling of a trustfull seller (and member).

            Regarding a new thread, I don't think that I have hi-jacked this thread and I am sure that an Iron Cross section moderator will move it to the badges section when they come across our discussion. I don't think that one of them has noticed it yet.

            "Sadly you didn't save the link. I really want to know what the price for this was."

            Yes, I am sorry I didn't save it either but I was not expecting to have a discussion about it (and I just emptied my recycle bin two days ago). Sadly, I didn't pay any attention to the final price either.

            "But looking at all the other items that he tries to sell as original, like this $1950 badge doesn't give me a feeling of a trustfull seller (and member)."

            Well frankly, I have not looked at his other items as I don't care what else he is selling, it makes no difference anyway because we are discussing this one item only. Whatever else he is selling is of no concequence nor interest. We need only concentrate on what started the thread, the LCTB planchet and it's die characteristics as compared to known Third Reich period made examples.

            Comment

              #21
              The badge in auction is not the same strike badge as so called WIEDMANN style hinge or whoever it turnout to be. Original strike badge has a dot details on leaves and one in question doesn't.
              Attached Files

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                #22
                In finding this thread I felt it might be an avenue in which to prepare my plan to write a page on this style LCTB, but first, I am having the badge I currently possess sent out for some testing and super magnification. Once I begin my thread on these badges I will link this one to it. So, until then, I really don't have anything more to add at this time. Hopefully my study will help a lot with all of this and I can make my point clear.

                Chuck

                Comment

                  #23
                  I am wondering what is that you are trying to test and see under super magnification, and what is the point that you are clearing out, ...with out any magnification unfinished badge and all badges of this type in question didn't come from the same dies that original second type LCTB (what we are calling WIEDMANN style hinge) the one that was awarded in '39. Seller of the unfinished badge wrote that badge is in gold, in reality it's some type of brass alloy and very shiny, I would think if it was made about 60-70 years ago I would expect some patina on it.

                  Comment

                    #24
                    He is now trying to sell it on GunBroker.com
                    I believe the asking price is $7500.
                    Here is the link.

                    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=448785702

                    Oops! It just closed. And there were no buyers for it! It was selling for $7500 with no reserve.

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Originally posted by TP Alexander View Post
                      He is now trying to sell it on GunBroker.com
                      I believe the asking price is $7500.
                      Here is the link.

                      http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=448785702

                      Oops! It just closed. And there were no buyers for it! It was selling for $7500 with no reserve.
                      He also uses the picture vonStubben/Charles posted in post 18 in this thread.

                      /Flemming

                      Comment

                        #26
                        The planchet is an S&L/Souval. Its not a Schickle (or Wiedmann as mentioned in this thread incorrectly).

                        Whether it is wartime or not, impossible to say. I like the detail on it and S&L is known to have atleast offered these for sale based on a grainy snapshot of a retail fair they attended in Leipzig in 1941. But they also produced these postwar, so impossible to say when this planchet was punched out.

                        Tom
                        If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                        New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                        [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                        Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Tom,
                          You are far too generous. Just another turd in the punchbowl IMO....

                          Chet
                          Zinc stinks!

                          Comment

                            #28
                            But its Tombak Chet, I thought it would be right up your alley

                            Tom
                            If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                            New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                            [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                            Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
                              The planchet is an S&L/Souval.
                              But they also produced these postwar, so impossible to say when this planchet was punched out. Tom
                              See here for S&L/Souval post war versions...................... http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=764649
                              Prost ! Steve.

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Thanks Steve, both nice looking, albeit postwar badges. I am assuming the S&L and Souval are 2 different dies, but I don't really see much of a difference between the two. Is there a way to tell them apart by just looking at the obverse design?

                                Thanks

                                Tom
                                If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                                New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                                [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                                Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

                                Comment

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