Hollow rifle IAB ?

[Graeme]

Hi Guys

Well I am not so sure. I hate making judgements from pics, as some fakes can be disguised very well with photography. I would love to see that badge in hand or have detailed scans.

Those badges do have the same flaws, but IMO the first one posted could be ok and the original that he used for his copies. As Tom previously mentioned would like to see an open pin shot.
But the finish on the first badge is very believable and does not have the hero fingerprint. The crack in the eagle is very believable. The hardware looks quite good also and seen on originals.
The hero does copy from good badges and if this was the case all the flaws would move with the copy.

cheers
Graeme

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Graeme,

It is true that he casts original badges, but I think he destroys them in the process. He has to take off all the original hardware and strip the original finish off of the original badge BEFORE he makes the casting of it. I seriously doubt that after he makes the mould, he reassmble's the orginal badge and even if he did, he would have to refinish it to get rid of all the re-soldering signs around the hardware, etc.

The wing crack seals the deal on the badge that started this thread, but all the marks on the reverse are also telling that these all came out of the same fake casting die. However, before seeing all these similarities, the bend in the pin told me something was wrong with it. As for the finish, Staegemeir dabbles with all kinds of finishes, its not always this dark finish. Here are two similar examples of the finish.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

2

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

It is the wing crack that gave me hope with this badge. It is a definite crack whereas the repro is much different. I agree the pin was always a little suspect looking, but imo the same flaws on the reverse are to be expected. From the crappy pics I cant see the telltale "potted" finish.

Again I would like to see better pics.

cheers
Graeme

[Thomas Durante]

It is a definite crack whereas the repro is much different.

Really? Looks exactly the same to me. Actually, the crack in the one I posted looked more realistic to me, but in reality the are both EXACTLY the same IMO.

OK, diregard the crack, how about the exact same flattened left wing of the eagle? Compare this to the closeup Den shows in Post #3.

Tom

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

You may be right with this badge, I am just taking a different view on it from the pics shown, which imo do not show the telltale signs of the hero.

The flat spot on the wing is expected IMO if copied from the original, the same with all the other flaws.

Tonight, I will have a fresh look at this thread, so that any pre conceived ideas are not in my head. You look again later also Tom, without thinking where the badge came from, and all those "same" flaws...

It is not often that the hero gets all the hardware correct, if you look at his copy you posted of the hollow rifle IAB he uses round wire catch, on the first badge posted the flat wire catch is seen on originals...

If only we both had it in our hands!!

cheers
Graeme

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Graeme,

I do not see your point with all of this, it is clearly a Staegemeir fake. With all these identical flaws (including a crack in wing!), there are only 2 possibilities here:

1. The one posted by Den is the ORIGINAL that Staegemeir used to make all these hollow-rifle fakes

OR

2. It is a Staegemeir Fake


How can you consider #1 to be even a remote possibility?? To cast these badges, he has to totally disassemble the original, thus forever altering it or destroying it in the process. Even if he were clever enough to reassemble the original, he would have to refinish it to hide all the resoldereing. So, at a minimum, if Den's badge was the one and only original (which is impossible IMO), it is AT LEAST refinished. This nullifies your arguement that the finish is "not typical of the Hero".

He dabbles with all sorts of different hardware as well, and a lot of it is very close to originals. But, the base badge is always the same and indisputable that it is a reproduction.

Tom

[Graeme]

Hi Graeme,

I do not see your point with all of this, it is clearly a Staegemeir fake. With all these identical flaws (including a crack in wing!), there are only 2 possibilities here:

1. The one posted by Den is the ORIGINAL that Staegemeir used to make all these hollow-rifle fakes


Tom

Hi Tom

I thought it was clear all through this thread that your number 1 choice was my take on this badge.

My analysis of this badge is from the couple of crappy pics at the beginning of this thread, and nothing else.

If it is clearly a Staegemeir fake then I have obviously lost the plot and need to start collecting something else like spoons.

Have you seen the hero at work, I don't think we necessarily know for sure how he copies his fakes.

At least we have one thread going on with a little debate, even if it is just you and me

cheers
Graeme

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Graeme,

OK, just wanted to clarify your position so that others reading this thread will fully understand your thoughts on the badge.

Staegemeir's fakes are dangerous enough and your opinion only servers to blur the lines between what is original and what is a Staegmeir fake, in my opinion. Ofcourse I haven't seen him actually making these fakes, but common sense gives me a pretty good idea. Its not rocket science after all, but I could totally be wrong on his "process" as well. So, if my explanation is incorrect, please explain how YOU think he can make his fakes without destroying the original?

Frankly, this badge is quite cut and dry for me compared to several of Staegemeir's other fakes, which have a LOT less features to help identify them as such.

Tom

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

My position is clear on this badge, and that is that I feel from the crappy pics posted IMO it could have been the original used for his copies. He may have even replaced the pin and possibly hinge, as the badge did not look in the best of condition with all the knocks and crack. I don't see all the hero traits that the other badges you posted have. The reason I can't see them may be because the pics are not as good as the ones you posted.

My opinion is straight forward and should not blur the lines between original and fake. Mine is just an opinion. For a better opinion I would like to see the badge in hand.

I have no definite facts about how he copies his badges, and as such don't want to speculate too much. He does sell some good badges so there is the possibility he does not destroy them.

cheers
Graeme

[Den]

At least we have one thread going on with a little debate, even if it is just you and me

cheers
Graeme[/quote]

Love these arguments.

Den

[Graeme]

Den

Tom has offered me "pistols at dawn"

cheers
Graeme

[Den]

Den

Tom has offered me "pistols at dawn"

cheers
Graeme

-------

Den