Bronze/gold Gab Revisited

[Mike Pinkus]

Hello
i know there was a discussion started by Bill Stump a few weeks ago about the existence real or not of these.
I just received a number of badges from a picker of mine on the continent and this piece was among them....
it is marked assman with a number 2 underneath
appears to be zinc,cast in hinge and catch, weighs 26.5 grams, bubbling of the finish is apparent.
comments???
let the games begin
mike

http://tankbadges.homestead.com

<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/bgab1.jpg>
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/bgab2.jpg>

[skip]

Hi mike,
I´ve got 2 identical to this in silver.One is zinc and marked with A4 and the other is "kriegsmetal" marked with a 2

[Mike Pinkus]

Hello
kinda suprised this did not provoke more discussion.....
heres my take on it...
this obviously late war badge is made of inferior metal (kreigs metal..monkey metal, lead, or bizmuth additives etc.) compared
to early war or pre war metals that were used. We are all aware on how much weaker of a hold plating has on these metals vs the early war tombacs, fine zincs etc.
it is common practise today in the metal smithing industry to lay a copper flash before silver plating anything, there is no reason to assume differently during ww2 era.
in fact a jewler friend of mine has seen in his experience, silver plated pieces that have been cleaned with thiourea based metal cleaners( "dip it" brand etc) that people have used that have had this copper flash exposed because they dipped it too long!...These cleaners actually strip a minute layer of plating off each time they are applied to a piece.
this addition of a copper base before silver plating is done either in an electro plating or chemical plating process.....
so bottom line is i believe that the existance of bronze GABs as well as some bronze IABs in collections were originally silver and the plating has worn offf, or been cleaned off showing the underlying "primer" used prior to applying the silver plating.
just my 2 cents worth
mike pinkus

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Mike,

I have no problem with the badge at all, a standard late-war injection moulded Assmann. It's difficult to comment on the finish, based on only images and without holding it.

I'm not sure I 100% agree with your conclusion about the finish though. I have no problems with genuine badges having a copper plating applied prior to the silver finish - I have seen this on several types of zinc-based badges from different manufacturers. The finish on this badge seems too even though, with only minor wear to some high points revealing the zinc-based alloy underneath, so I don't think heavy wear is the cause. The reason for the copper plating was to hold the silver finish and on badges where I have seen the copper plating applied it has done just that - held the silver finish quite well. When worn, you'll see bare basemetal on the high points, a copper/gold finish on the worn areas and the silver finish in the recesses.

This badge appears to have no silver finish remaining, even in the recesses. I don't see how a silver finish could have been removed without 1) leaving at least some traces of the silver finish and 2) also removing a fair amount of the underplate at the same time. Don't forget that the dips we use today are for silver and not the silver COLOURED plating used on these badges.

Something someone suggested during the initial gold GAB thread comes to mind, that some badges were accidentally finished in the wrong colour. The other option is that this copper-plated badge never had the final silver finish applied for whatever reason, maybe souveniered from the manfactured and the bright copper/gold colour has tarnished to bronze with age.

Just my thoughts/speculation. With badges like this I don't think we'll ever really know and probably explains the lack of response to an interesting question.

Regards
Mike K

[James Noble]

I like Mike P. have no problem with the badge it self and it is hard to tell just what the finish is from the picture's most coppers turn to a dark reddish color like a penny with age and gold doesn't tarnish and I have seen some frosted silver plated pieces turn a dark yellowish color with age and thats what it looks like on my pc but then I was just looking though one of Christopher Ailsbys books where he states that he has a bronze class GAB in his collection and that he has "encountered a number of variations of maker,so the theory of a faulty batch or a maker's variant is disproved." So you may have one of those.
Opions everone got one....jnoble

[Hugh W. Brock]

Scrub the thing in WD40 or mineral spirits and I fell sure your 'bronze' or 'gold' will turn into what it is---dirt and gunge.

[Bob Hritz]

These are just plating errors. I have several of these and either they were plated in error or are left overs finished post war to sell to GI's.

Bob hritz

[Lorenzo Brown]

Here's one received from Jamie Cross. IMO it is "gold" plated...not caused by dirt or ageing.
Any opinions?

Weight 32.7 gm
Height 53.1 mm
Width 42.8 mm

[Lorenzo Brown]

Reverse

[Lorenzo Brown]

Details

[WAR LORD]

The bronze version I have was being worn at the time of the mans capture. His name was Erik Verling, he gave his badge to a mane named Norman Jones while in the POW Camp at Whittlesey. Norman gave the badge to me directly. I am sure the perpouse of the badge will not be known, but there are many types and the finish is aplied. Not dirt or discolouration.

[rkoy]

ok

heres a thought
say the guys with the gab see all the combat guys getting ccc in bronze silver and gold so they go ask or take it upon thomselves to go and get the gold or bronze applied themselves! who knows coulda happened. jealousy of the gold ccc when they feel they had been through as many days themselves...just a thought...rodney

[Mark S.]

How strange, Lorenzo

Turns out I have exactly the same GAB that I recently got from Detlev, except mine has a broken catch. The one I have also seems to have the strange coloration yours does, but I was thinking it was just patina.

Weird

[Mark S.]

reverse

[W. C. Stump]

MY ORIGINAL POST

My how opinions do change.