IAB, unmarked Frank & Reif

[Graeme]

Hi Chad

There is no real need to use this numbering system, for most it does not mean anything. There is enough knowledge around on IABs to recognise them by maker or nickname.

Collectors started using this style of numbering system after Franks GAB book came out. With the GABs it was useful because most are unmarked and there were quite a few unknown makers. I also think it is fair to say that before Franks book, GAB collecting was not as prevalent as it is now, mainly because the majority of collectors were not familiar with the different types.

A lot of research went into Franks book and that is why it is very close to a complete work.

Hope that explains my view on the issue

cheers
Graeme

[Hans N]

There is no real need to use this numbering system, for most it does not mean anything. There is enough knowledge around on IABs to recognise them by maker or nickname.

Couldn´t have said it better my self!

[stewy]

Well i believe if using this system helps people in their pursuit of the hobby,it's fine with me. Stewy

[fischer]

PS As a New Year resolution guys, can we not use that silly numbering system for IABs .

I agree...Lets use the correct names that coincide with the MM and the names we have come to use to identify unknown makers.

Best Regards, fischer

[GELIS44]

Nice badge!!

[Norman LaBarge]

Hi Chad

There is no real need to use this numbering system, for most it does not mean anything. There is enough knowledge around on IABs to recognise them by maker or nickname.

Collectors started using this style of numbering system after Franks GAB book came out. With the GABs it was useful because most are unmarked and there were quite a few unknown makers. I also think it is fair to say that before Franks book, GAB collecting was not as prevalent as it is now, mainly because the majority of collectors were not familiar with the different types.

A lot of research went into Franks book and that is why it is very close to a complete work.

Hope that explains my view on the issue

cheers
Graeme

Graeme,

I respectfully disagree. I listed the number that refers to Sasha Weber's book as a courtesy to those who own the book. As good as the Infantry Assault Badges book is the Table of Contents suck. Anyone can compare the table of contents between Sasha's and Frank's books and see what I mean. I have not had the book as long as others and I do not have it memorized and at times I end up flipping page by page to find a given badge. So if putting a number helps someone I am all for it.

I may be new to the forum, but, I started collecting over 40 years ago when the references of the day (Littlejohn & Dodkins) are the equivalent of children's books to the reference material available today. I admit I got out of collecting for some time and when I came back I was amazed at the number and quality of fake/replica items available.

Another thing is that, for some unknown reason, the militaria collecting community tolerates fake/replica pieces and dealers of fake/replica items at militaria shows. I do not know if this is a big problem outside the U.S., but, every show I have attended, from the MAX & SOS to the small local militaria shows I see more bad than good items. I have not been to every major show but I went to my first MAX show in the 1986 and have been to several of the Pittsburgh shows.

To show you the difference, I also collect vintage, mostly pre 1960, Halloween items. At a major antique show in Atlanta, Georgia high quality fake/replica items began to appear on dealer tables. It started slow and grew larger over a couple of years. Finally, one of the leading collector/experts in the field went to the event organizers and complained. The event organizers not only banned these items I understand some dealers were banned. I can only imagine what the MAX or SOS would look like if this non tolerance of fakes was put into effect.

I am sorry if using the reference number irritates some experts out there. I really do not see a problem in using it.

Norm

[Hans N]

Hi Norm,

by all means use the Weber numbering system if that is to your liking but don´t expect the "experts" to talk the same languge or in a long shot replying since there is a huge differance when comparing to the Heukemes GAB book.

The GAB´s didn´t have so many already accepted "named" unmarked GAB´s of unknown makers when the book was done.Thus the numbering fell in a better taste. In the matter of the IAB book by Weber the unmarked types of IAB´s already had "names" to tell the types apart, the numbering in the IAB book was adopted in the last edition... previous editions didn´t have them. The Weber system is not a collecting community accepted one since there are adopted names for the unmarked and unknown makers out there.

Webers book is the only IAB book out there but i am not so shure that it´s accepted all the way in the community. It might be a good reference book in terms of photographs....

I for one will not convert in to the Weber IAB numbering system but it because it´s enough with the "names" that was adopted and accepted in the IAB collecting community even before Webers first book came out...

[Norman LaBarge]

Hans,
Thanks for a clearer explanation. I can refrain from using the numbers.

I did not realize how many serious collectors of IAB's there were. That may be because I live in a virtual combat badge collector dead zone. Most collectors I see are cloth, anything TR, helmet, political, or U.S. collectors. Many of the area collectors give me disinterested looks when I talk about combat badges. They refer to the many fakes as to why the stay away from badges, at the same time one of the cloth collectors commented on a fine breast eagle I had. It was not for sale and it is fake in my opinion. To each his own.

I have always liked combat badges and I am glad to find out I am not alone. I am also glad to see good reference books starting to enter the collecting world.

Norm

[Graeme]

Hi Norm,


Webers book is the only IAB book out there but i am not so sure that it´s accepted all the way in the community. It might be a good reference book in terms of photographs....

Thats about it Hans, IMO. I am pretty sure that many IABs are not included and the level of discussion is minimal. You can't have a book like that, that is not a complete work, set a new naming convention.
Recently I have seen these numbers used to describe IABs without any other description, and this will confuse new collectors rather than help them. Can you imagine trying to remember a number for every IAB !! At least using real names we can actually "put a name to a badge"....



Norm, I would love to see your idea of banning crooked dealers from shows

cheers
Graeme