In the case of the sniper badge, I think it makes more sense that we have not seen those in photos due to the perils of wearing such a badge and the rarity of the award itself, but we do know it existed pre-1945, there is documentation of this, we also know it was reproduced for wear in 1957. That being said, I must say I know very little of the sniper badge and would regard it with a healthy amount of skepticism simply due to the fact that it is something I do not know very much about. As for the CCC, it was awarded in much higher numbers than the sniper badge and did not hold the same risks of display as the sniper badge, so I would expect to see some sort of evidence that these existed. As I said, this is simply my opinion, which is worth whatever you want to to be worth and I am always eager to be humbled by those with more knowledge then myself, but I am simply not convinced.
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What other exciting pieces were obtained ?Also as LordWinter as said this was awarded in high numbers so you would expect to see some in photos in my opinion.Last edited by leib1; 11-17-2008, 05:06 PM.Comment
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I've had the privilege of speaking to a few Gents that were POW in this Country, They tell the same Story which is they were striped of anything of the slightest value before entering this Country.
I dare say some managed to hide the od piece, Sadly not the people i talked to.Comment
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Hi guys,
there is one CCC in cloth depicted in Klietmanns book and if i recall it right it´s made in the same fashion and technique as the Cloth WB´s. Printed Ink on a cotton cloth.
There are recorded evidence regarding the WB´s in cloth that most likely where made due to shortage of the mutch needed metal for the "official" type of badges. With this fact in mind there is a huge chance that there are other awards as well in cloth made.
http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...ht=wb+in+cloth
If they where ever issued that´s another issue and something we could argue back and forth for ever until photographic evidence pops up...
If i remember it right Giel has a interesting pic of a IAB in cloth in wear, the bullion type.Regards
Hans N
Don´t throw away your fake WB´s! Get in touch with me.
I collect them for reference purposes for the benefit of the hobby (for the right "fake" price of course).Comment
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Hi guys,
Like the Snipers Badge, there is no photographic evidence of the Luftwaffe CCC in wear, but we all know that it was instituted because of period documentation that talks of its creation. We are talking about apples and oranges here. There is no photographic evidence, nor is there mention in any regulations that a cloth CCC was sanctioned. Additionally and more importantly IMO, there is NO vet eyewitness accounts of a cloth one in wear or even available.
Manfred Dorr, hands down the authority on the CCC also has never come across one or a recipient account of a cloth CCC. Hitler put the CCC on par with the Knights Cross (and even higher by some accounts), and therefore its wear and awarding were not taken lightly. I think it is flippant to say that these are "rare", and assert that these exist when there is absolutely no evidence to base WARLORD's example on or any other cloth examples. With all due respect, WARLORD's example is quite crude and looks very much like the cloth ones you can buy on gunbroker.com for 30 dollars. It is much easier to embroider a piece of cloth as a reproduction rather than try to reproduce a metal one with all the correct hardware and finish.
In all my research, I have found only 1 other person to assert that they have an "original, rare cloth CCC". That person was Roger Honts and we all know his reputation as a sharlatan. Surprsingly enough, he also claims to have the "only" known photograph of the cloth CCC in wear
. Now, what are the chances of that?? BTW, Roger Honts was also caught faking photographic provenance of the balloon badge in wear
. He was also caught red-handed try to produce high-end 3rd reich awards (along with another big name in the hobby that I will not mention
). The pattern here is too obvious to ignore.
If any soldiers would "need" to have a lighter, embroadered badge rather than a bulky medal, it would be a CCC recipient. These guys were THE front line soldier and for sure would want to be as light and quite as possible in combat. That alone would warrant a cloth badge and that is why I think there may have been a few hand made private by the soldiers themselves. But not a mass produced, machine embroidered piece like WARLORD shows IMO, no offense Chris.
TomIf it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a littleNew Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
[/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com
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No offense whatsoever! I agree with everything you have said 100% actually
There may have been private ones, but as is the case with most privately done items, it would be very hard to determine originality therefore, should be regarded with extreme caution. I just think we would have seen some sort of hard proof by now, as you said, the CCC was right up there with the RK!
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Tom your observations are well founded, and no offence is taken. The actual piece is quite well constructed from cotton thread, also as said before this is not mine. The soarce was the Camp at Ely and this has been the place that has turned up some ammazing items. My Prinz Eugen group came from a prisoner from there. POHA arm shields and compleat uniforms. A ROHND Gold sports badge to mention but a few.
Cloth is a very interesting subject and one I have only a small amount of knoledge in, but have inherited a great collection of extreemly interesting pieces, these being David Littlejohns. It would seem that there was considerably more varriation in that could be found in cloth than has been thought or offically approved. The Wound badge in cloth is one example. Another is the Aircrew badge in cloth.Comment
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Maybe interesting to look out for:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=87156
Cheers,
MartinComment
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When I collected CCCs – some years ago – I was offered different clasps from all over the world, but I have never been offered, or heard about, CCCs in cloth. For what it´s worth.Comment
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