Juncker CCC Question

[M. Zimmer]

Has anyone a close-up-picture of the marker mark of a Juncker CCC in gold ?, what´s the value of such a piece in a perfect condition ?
Thanks

[skip]

Hello M. Zimmer,

I think the mark on all grades of CCC from Juncker should look pretty much alike.

A gold CCC in good condition should fetch about 1600Euro. The big question is of course, is the gold original, or applied at a later date!

Here are my bronze and silver ones, still looking for the gold myself

Skip

[ErikR]

Hello Skip,

What is your opinion on this FLL?

A. Formans book references Type C, F and G.

Type C - Deluxe quality, gold plated tombac, rivited. Presented by Hitler 1944-45 - with no indication of price. How many issued?

F Grade III (which is valued at 1200 US) (mine I think)

or G - special presentation, deluxe riveted (6000 US)

Interested in learning

cheers ERik------------

Sorry pictures are not very clear

[ErikR]

Pictures

[Philippe DB]

I just don't get it

Everybody but me seems to own a gold CCC

Maybe I should add it to my shopping list

No, better not, what are the chances that anybody would be able to help me

KR
Philippe

[Denis]

To Erik :
IMO, there is no difference between "Deluxe quality, gold plated tombac, rivited. Presented by Hitler 1944-45" (type C to use Forman's terminology) and "special presentation, deluxe riveted" (the so called type G). Both are the same and I think Forman made a mistake.
Several usual makers manufactured the CCC in gold (e.g. Friedrich Linden aka FLL, CE Juncker...) and their clasp was nothing than their respective usual production which was "gold plated".
The Deluxe CCC in Gold (whose the manufacturer would be CE Juncker) would have been devoted to be awarded by AH himself. There is no official rule but this was reported by the recipients who were personally awarded this clasp by AH. As you said, the reverse centrale plate is riveted, a hook is also there to avoid bad "display" and the whole finish is very well made.
As far as I know, no source has provided the exact number of such clasps.
I also don't know if this clasp was also given to recipients who received it from the hands of Himmler and Guderian (the 2 other personnalities who gave CCC in Gold).
BEst Regards
Denis


Edit for Philippe : you are not alone, I don't have this clasp either !!

[ErikR]

Thank you for your feedback gentlemen!

E

[ErikR]

Hey Skip - how do you guys get such an exellent scan / photo of your awards?

Do you Scan
Digital camera

Background lighting / flash

I have a very nice Fui S2 digital, and I must be missing somthing in the process

just curious

E

[skip]

Me also no CCC in Gold, have´nt found one in my price range were I really believed that it was the original gold. It´s just to easy to take any old clasp and gold plate it. The gold one posted by ErikR is an original clasp by FLL, but is the gold original?
I personally think not but am quiet willing to be shown better by somebody in the know.
As far as I know there were only 600 or so awarded CCCs at all during WW2. I´m not at home but I believe that about 150 were personally awarded by AH, Himmler or Guderian.

Erik, my photos are taken with an old 2 million pixel digital camera, I think the main critera is that you have optical zoom, usually I take about 3 or 4 photos from each angle and 1 of these is usually pretty clear and sharp.
Skip

[John T]

fake fll ccc

The FLL you posted looks good from the pix...the real ones I have seen all have a curve to them when you look at them from the top. FLL CCC's are now heavily faked. All of the fakes I have seen to date are not curved when you look at them from the top and are made from a better quality metal and have a better finish than the originals, also the backing plates on the modern fakes seem to all have somewhat thick fresh rust. I have seen these fakes going for 80 dollars as fakes, but they are also sold as real by some dealers. Other fakes exist also that are made now--ie fakes marked to other makers including one I saw with a fluted coke bottle type pin, the maker escapes me. The fake FLL silver CCC's all seem to have a very "frosty" look to them...I would have bought one to post pix but was not going to pay 80 dollars for one....the type mentioned as presented by Himmler has also been heavily faked for years...ie the type with the center hook on the back.

John

[ErikR]

"It´s just to easy to take any old clasp and gold plate it. The gold one posted by ErikR is an original clasp by FLL, but is the gold original?"

Thanks Skip - how would one authenticate this? How would I as a rookie collector know? Are there any indicators?

I have no doubt about my FLL - because the seller/dealer is of very high quality and regard by this disscussion group. But I am interested in feedback.

John

Type G deluxe with pin - what was the use for this pin addition? Did the pin slip through a horizontal loop to keep award from dropping down on tunic?

thank you

Erik

[skip]

Don´t really know how to authenticate these, the ones that I thought were authentic gold were always heavily faded and the gold was a very matt yellow/gold colour. Yours would appear to be to bright and shiney for my taste but to be honest Ireally don´t know, it´s something that I would really have to see in my hand in daylight to be half sure about what I was telling you.

The hook on the top of the G deluxe fitted through a loop on the uniform to keep it nice and flush, just like on the Navy award series.

Skip

[ErikR]

Don´t really know how to authenticate these, the ones that I thought were authentic gold were always heavily faded and the gold was a very matt yellow/gold colour. Yours would appear to be to bright and shiney for my taste but to be honest Ireally don´t know, it´s something that I would really have to see in my hand in daylight to be half sure about what I was telling you.

The hook on the top of the G deluxe fitted through a loop on the uniform to keep it nice and flush, just like on the Navy award series.

Skip

Cheers

E