25 Pan AB

[cmagnifico]

Hello everyone,
OK!! I'm getting old and can't remember what happened yesterday and can't find the eMails requesting pics of the 25PAB by "JFS" so here they are.
Opinions please...
Hope the Server works this time.

Home page just in case pics don't load: http://home.att.net/~SgtMaggit/25TankJFS.html

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Notice that the "JFS" mark is crushed on the right side - can this happen when the badge finisher clamped the badge in a vice - has anyone else seen this attribute.

Regards,
CJ

[Yuri D.]

This badge does not look right to me.

1. The rivets are too big.

2. The JFS mark is wrong (the bottom of the S should be more under the F).

3. The "25" is not correct.

4. There should be holes under the eagle's wings.

5. The tread marks around the hinge are weird.

6. The swastika is cut around incorrectly.

7. Detail looks bad on the tank and oak-leaves.

I'm not saying that this is a fake, but I wouldn't want to have it in my collection.

Yuri

[Ron Birch]

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I don't understand, all that you are saying is wrong with this badge and you're not saying it's a repro?

[Yuri D.]

I do not consider myself to be an authority of any kind beyond reproach. I just write what bothers me about this badge and why I would not have it in my collection. I think that it's better that the forum decides as to whether or not an item is a reproduction, not a person without the experience or the reputation to make that call. We are dealing with VERY expensive items here and condemning them by calling them reproductions should be done with care.

Yuri

[Rich G]

If you get some if the big numbered assault badge collectors looking in on this thread, you'll be plenty of information.

I'd have to say, that I wouldn't have this particular one in my collection either.

Rich

[mmiller]

CJ,
I think Yuri pretty much summed it up. This badge has lots wrong with it. Not for me, either.

Mark

[Greg]

CJ,
Unfortunately, I have to echo Yuri's comments. Also, I haven't seen a JFS or unmarked JFS-style numbered PAB that didn't have the scooped out or indented area on the back of the swastika (see the Panzer badge images on the main site)

Numbered JFS Panzer Badge

The back of the swastika on the image you showed looks flat.

Regards,
Greg

[Ron Birch]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..........

..... I guess CJ from the marks on the hinge and no space between the eagles wings and no dish behind the swaz......to many wrongs so I will be the one to say I believe it is a repro. And even though I am no "expert" on the matter with all of this that would be my conclusion........unless enlightened otherwise.

[IVAN]

Hi CJ,

sorry but I agree with other friends. It's a reproduction and very bad made.

Unfortunately they are not all so ugly the copies!

Ivan

[cmagnifico]

OK all, Thanks for all of the the input provided.
First I'd like to add some comments, not necessarilly defending the badge, and by no means as an attack on anyones' credibility. I'll go by the numbers Yuri outlined:
Preface: the badge is well worn; it shows detail to the eagle head, leaves,and the acorn ridges only in the protected recesses under high magnification.
1. Rivits toooo' big - yes this bothered me, but on closer examination the rivit head is half the size depicted in the photo. The riviting tool made two concentric rings on the body of the badge proper around the rivit(s).
2. "JFS" mark S does come partially under the F and the mark is raised as originals should be.
3. The "25" in this rendition can be seen on other references and is separately applied.
4. Not all "25" PAB had cut out wings.
5. "Tread marks around the hinge" - - some of the most early tooling used this method of crimping and securing the hinge; ie. the 1942 AWS Panzer
badge without these "tread" marks securing the hinge is a repro.
6. "Swastika cut incorrectly" Take a look at LittleJohn and Dodkins, Orders and Decorations..., page 151 and you will see the cut out swastika and same "25" configuration.
7. Detail: well worn as stated above.

In additon the weight bothers me; it weighs in at 36.2g. Can someone help me with their "JFS 25 PAB" weight?

In any case I will be going to the Union Show this Saturday and will bring it back to the dealer for the lifetime money back guarantee

Thanks again and best regards,
CJ

[Matt Weber]

This is definately a reproduction badge.

-mis-shapend numbers.
-incorrect rivets for JFS
-Swastika is flat on reverse (should be indented)
-incorrect medal content
-incorrect crimping style on hinge (not JFS style)
- poor detail
-Poor finish (not typical JFS style)

Where did you get this badge from?

Matt

[cmagnifico]

Hello Matt,
I am going to give the dealer time to reply to my eMail first. However looking at EJUNK(pier) I see that he is still actively selling. Looking at my data base I purchased it some time ago and confused it with the dealer that sold me another Pan Badge locally. I went to the Union NJ Show today and gave the "JFS" to one of our most reputable dealers to look it over. He gave it a thumbs down, Large rivits, Bad tank, and tooooo heavy as I and others suspected. Took me long enough to learn.

Just shows you that the association works !!!
Will let you know what happens.
Regards,
CJ