Balloon Badge Revisited- Pics!?!?!?

[W. C. Stump]

Possible scenarios. He was one of the Gebirgsjäger who jumped in North Norway but not at Narvik. Former SS-FJ Btl. 500\600. Brandenburger ?
Or
He gained his FJ badge earlier in the war and seeing as this is an awards ceremony he has picked up an EK1 and IAB whilst fighting as a HJ leader (in a volksturm unit?)

More to the point if it was a balloon observers badge wouldn't he be more likely to have a GAB as he would have had to have been an artilleryman serving in a beobachtungs abteilung or the like.


Simon

All logical possibilities, but for him to be wearing a Army Balloon Observer's badge is ILLOGICAL. This is just my humble opinion.

[Simon O.]

All logical possibilities, but for him to be wearing a Army Balloon Observer's badge is ILLOGICAL. This is just my humble opinion.

Agreed

[W. C. Stump]

That being a Balloon Observer's badge is about as real at this little fairy.

[Tiger 1]

Mystery solved.

This morning I was editing tapes of documentaries I had recorded previously and never completely labeled. I found a very clear clip of the exact scene posted at the top of this thread. The HJ fellow is clearly and definately wearing a silver IAB. The clip that shows this detail is from the History Channel's presentation of "Hitler and Stalin, The Roots of Evil". Copies should be available thru the History Channel's web site.

No doubt for me, it's an IAB.

T

[Yuri D.]

This morning I was editing tapes of documentaries I had recorded previously and never completely labeled. I found a very clear clip of the exact scene posted at the top of this thread. The HJ fellow is clearly and definately wearing a silver IAB. The clip that shows this detail is from the History Channel's presentation of "Hitler and Stalin, The Roots of Evil". Copies should be available thru the History Channel's web site.

No doubt for me, it's an IAB.

T

We know he's wearing an IAB. It's his bottom badge that's being discussed here.

Yuri

[James Noble]

Could it be possible that what we're seeing is a Heer FJ badge and not a LW badge.

[Brian S]

Could it be possible that what we're seeing is a Heer FJ badge and not a LW badge.

That's exactly what I always thought it was, a Heer FJ badge.

[Prosper Keating]

I am sure that I saw a photograph of this Führer audience some years ago and came to the conclusion that it was certainly a para badge and probably an Army one, if the faintly discernable bulge at the top of the wreath and the distinctive shape of what seems to be a diving eagle are any indication. The thing to do would be to get hold of an original print of the film and blow that up.

It is certainly possible that the HJ Leader served in an airborne unit sometime prior to being appointed to this rank in the Hitlerjugend. Combat veterans were often posted to the HJ, especially in the later stages of the war, in order to help train the youngsters in the craft of war. By the time this photo was taken, the HJ was a combat organisation.

He could have been a former Luftwaffe Fallschirmjäger with previous service in the Heer's Fallschirm-Infanterie. He could have been a Brandenburger. But it is more likely that he served with SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 and/or 600. Not all of the estimated 3000 to 3500 men who passed through the ranks of the SS Para Bn fell in battle. Quite a few transferred out of the unit, being posted to other Waffen-SS units. It is more logical that the man in the photograph is an SS man serving as a Hitlerjugend leader.

But none of these images is really clear enough. We would need to take an enlargement from the film itself. On the subject of Balloons, here's a shot from Walter Scheu's photograph collection. It shows what appears to be a balloon with an observer's basket suspended below and on the reverse is written, in Scheu's hand, "Unser stetiger Begleiter der Fesselballon 12". Scheu was an NCO in SS-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 5 before being commissioned into the SS paras.

PK

[migileto]

balloon

what about the statment in tuckers book that some vets brought back the balloon badge? is this a prototype?
jamie cross has one for sale for 2300, if these were faked why dont we see a lot of them on the market. or are there and I just have not?

[Tiger 1]

We know he's wearing an IAB. It's his bottom badge that's being discussed here.

Yuri

So it is. My attention span gets a bit shorter as I get a bit older.

T

[W. C. Stump]

what about the statment in tuckers book that some vets brought back the balloon badge? is this a prototype?
jamie cross has one for sale for 2300, if these were faked why dont we see a lot of them on the market. or are there and I just have not?

Mr.Tucker made a serious error when he wrote "The fact that examples have been acquired from American World War II veterans, and so few of these identically made badges exist, form the basis of evidence for those who believe the Balloon Observer was indeed produced and bestowed during the war." He has no factual proof that the first American World War II veteran brought one of these badges back from the great WWII. He was told this by an owner of one of the "hump back fakes" who wanted to give creditably to his fake badge. Mr. Cross has no proof that the one he is trying to sell is a war time produced badge. Why you ask? The answer is that NONE wre ever produced during WWII. In the late 1960's these monstrosity flawed badges were produced in Germany and sold as reproductions. The perpetuated myth fostered by a minority of collectors and dealers over the years has caused the prices to rise to over $2,000.00 in some instances on today's market.. Finally, the reason behind the scarcity of these fakes is that when they were produced only a select few of each grade were produced and the demand for the badges was poor. I purchased six sets in the early years at a cost of around $50.00 per set and had a very difficult time disposing of them to collectors of that period. It was not until the late 70's that the few seen on today's market were featured in various reference books as originals badges and the dealers used the fact that no great number was produced as a selling point and say that the badges are rare originals. The truth is that the badge is scarce, but NOT produced during WWII.

[Gerd Becker]

Hi all,

for what it´s worth. I have seen this scene in another documentary and could make another picture.




For my eyes it looks like a Luftwaffen-para-badge and an IAB.

cheers
Gerd

[PaulR]

Hi all,

for what it´s worth. I have seen this scene in another documentary and could make another picture.




For my eyes it looks like a Luftwaffen-para-badge and an IAB.

cheers
Gerd

I would bet a paycheck that the badge in question is a LW Para badge.

Regards
Paul R.

[Brian S]

Good picture. That should put it to rest once and for all.

[W. C. Stump]

The End

The evidence is in, the "camera never lies", and three people out of thousands seen a Hitler Youth Leader wearing a Silver Army Balloon Observer badge. (Kyle, Warlord and his "other historian"). I must say that "I would NOT give it 85 percent chance of the badge being a Balloon badge", but 99% positive proof that it is for sure a Luftwaffe Paratrooper Badge. With this I have the old crow dinner prepared, but will let it pass with a simple acknowledgment from both these English Gentlemen that they were wrong. Finally, all has been said that needs to be said until IF and WHEN additional new information is brought forth.