HEER FLAK - W.H. WIEN Opinions

[mmiller]

Jumping into Flak with a passion, I am in the process of increasing my collection. I know this badge, the W.H.WIEN, has been rehashed before, but I'd like comments, pro and con, about what you think of this one. All constructive thoughts are welcome. After all, we are trying to solve a mystery! Its gotta be logical.

I have checked Marc's new Flak Badge book, and checked up on the Hobacher. Marc explained his position very well. What I am not sure of, Marc, is what is meant by "..... no rivets between the gears and the four breech rivets." I see the gears and the four breech rivets (round larger circles) but are you referring to the rivets above the pedestal, to the left of the elevation wheel? The W.H. matches closely to the R.S. zinkers, but not exactly.

I did a SEARCH and found lots on this topic, on this and other Forums. I can't condem the badge outright, from anything susbstantial I have read. If you find something, please let me know.

I rushed these images tonight, so they may not be the best.

And yes, of course, I have return privledges if I desire.

Thanks for the comments.
Mark

[mmiller]

Well,

No one wants to commit an opinion? OK. I'll make a fool of myself. I think this badge is good, in spite of Marc's and many people's opinions (which I respect), of the question of Authenticity.

Please guys, don't wait for Marc. I already told him I am posting it! He'll show up, eventually.

Thanks,
Mark

[Marc Garlasco]

In an airport checking the WAF - how pathetic. Here is a thread. I have no time for this so do some analysis boys! Gotta catch a flight...
Marc

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=wien+flak

[mmiller]

In an airport checking the WAF - how pathetic.

Toward the top of the scale, I would say. GET a LIFE!

Hi Marc,

Thanks for the link. I stumbled across that one last week, and felt more positive about checking this badge out. Hope you had a good flight,

Mark

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Mark,

I like the look of your badge. The reverse has that greenish coloration, which is frequently noted on many original Luft Flaks by W.H. I also like the look of the front. It has taken on a light gray, almost styrene plastic-like look. I have also seen this same effect on many original zinc badges. Would you be able to supply us with a weight and some dimensions. The hardware looks good and I like the grinding/deburring toolmarks to the reverse. Is your badge vaulted?
As I'm sure you are aware, I have a badge very similar to yours. I am quite pleased with mine and feel very confident of its originality. Likewise, I feel confident that your badge is original. At this particular time, I have but one reservation: If these badges start popping up on every other dealer's table, then that is not a good sign. But for now (and hopefully forever) I like them.

Best regards,
Tom

[AndrewK]

Is the "E" in WIEN always supposed to look that big on their badges?

[Raytheman]

There are at least two different types of these WH Wien. This one and the one where there's a ring visible on the barrel from the back-side.
I think details from both are not that great..

[mmiller]

Would you be able to supply us with a weight and some dimensions.

Best regards,
Tom

Hi Tom,

You bet.

W- 27.3 g
H- 60 mm
W- 44.60 mm


Appreciate the replies.
Mark

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi Tom,

You bet.

W- 27.3 g
H- 60 mm
W- 44.60 mm


Appreciate the replies.
Mark

Hello Mark,

Thanks for posting the measurements. They are very consistent to my example: 60.03mm high x 44.67mm wide and weight of 27.3 grams.

My badge is vaulted and the the attachment hardware is all made of steel. Is yours the same?

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Is the "E" in WIEN always supposed to look that big on their badges?

Good observation and question, Andrew! I wish I knew the answer to that one, because I noticed the same thing on my badge. At this particular time, though, we are more concerned with trying to determine whether there are any Heer Flaks marked 'W.H. Wien' that are real. Most collectors still doubt the existence of original Heer Flaks by this maker. Personally, I like how the 'E' is larger and thicker looking. Original badges of other types tend to have inconsistencies like this, as well as misaligned lettering. For me, this is an indication that the die was cut by hand, as we should expect. Fakes, on the other hand, tend to have letters of uniform size and with perfect alignment: As if the die was cut by modern high-tech machinery. The "non-perfect" maker mark is just one more reason why I like the badge posted by Mark at the start of this thread.

Best regards,
Tom

[AndrewK]

Thanks. Though I feel pretty confident with crosses, I am still trying to learn when it comes to badges.

[mmiller]

Hello Mark,

My badge is vaulted and the the attachment hardware is all made of steel. Is yours the same?

Best regards,
Tom

Hi Tom,

100% consistant with yours. The vault is 'slight', and the hardware 'jumps' at the presence of a magnet.

I feel the same way about the imperfect 'E'. It is analagous to all the fake Schwerin KM badges, with the perfectly aligned maker's (Schwerin) name. I think the bloated 'E' is indicative of a hand cut die.

Regards,
Mark

[Giel VW]

Hi Mark,

I like your Hobacher!

The green finish you can see from the close ups is what I REALLY like about it!

[Thomas Durante]

Good observation and question, Andrew! I wish I knew the answer to that one, because I noticed the same thing on my badge. At this particular time, though, we are more concerned with trying to determine whether there are any Heer Flaks marked 'W.H. Wien' that are real. Most collectors still doubt the existence of original Heer Flaks by this maker. Personally, I like how the 'E' is larger and thicker looking. Original badges of other types tend to have inconsistencies like this, as well as misaligned lettering. For me, this is an indication that the die was cut by hand, as we should expect. Fakes, on the other hand, tend to have letters of uniform size and with perfect alignment: As if the die was cut by modern high-tech machinery. The "non-perfect" maker mark is just one more reason why I like the badge posted by Mark at the start of this thread.

Best regards,
Tom

Hi guys,

I agree with what Tom says 100%, and I too like the misaligned letters being found on originals. Along with what Mark says about Schwerin badges, lets not forget all the AGMuK CCC variants! Even the neatest ones are pretty inconsistent, unlike the perfect alignment of fakes.

Mark, I like your badge.

Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

"bloated E"

I think the bloated 'E' is indicative of a hand cut die.

"bloated E"

I really like your terminology.... brilliant!