AGMuK Gablonz conglomerate

[Don D.]

Who were the members that made up this conglomerate? Do we have any documentation or only speculation?

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Don,

Great questions! Really the only big mystery left to solve in our hobby and where CCCs are concerned. While studying just the CCC in depth for the book, I was able to differentiate at least 6 different makers in the AGMuK conglomorate (possibly 7 as I believe the 1.4 AGMuK CCCs might have been 2 separate companies). This corresponds nicely to the MK marked IABs, which go from MK1 through MK7, and most likely also the AGMuK makers based on hardware.

As far as solid documentation goes, that is pretty scarce. I think recenly Phil found a PAB packet marked with Rudolf Karneth and AGMuK together. The thread was over at GCA and I will look for it to be sure. RK was already highly suspected, and here is the list I am betting on:

RK
JFS
RSS
Adolf Scholze
Walter & Henlien
R. Kreisel

Tom

[Marc Garlasco]

What about AS in triangle?

[Thomas Durante]

What about AS in triangle?

Oh boy

Tom

[Marc Garlasco]

Trick question snapperhead...

[Thomas Durante]

http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...tuser=0&page=1

[Don D.]

here is the list I am betting on:

RK
JFS
RSS
Adolf Scholze
Walter & Henlien
R. Kreisel

Tom

Why the first four Tom? There are plenty of maker marked badges from them to show they were producing at a high rate. I would look for smaller companies that were trying to break into the market.

[Don D.]

What about AS in triangle?

Perhaps because they weren't located in Gablonz?

[Marc Garlasco]

Anything else out there or is everyone's brain fried by the summer sun?

[Don D.]

http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...tuser=0&page=1

Actually Tom, that thread contains as much useful information as this one does so far.....

Marc, I guess now days people only want to know if it is real and how much is it worth....

[Marc Garlasco]

I agree on both counts. Well, Durante tries. He's just limited mentally because of where he lives. Seriously though I think this is one of the most interesting questions we need to answer.

[Don D.]

So much info was lost when they were forced out of Gablonz with only 30 kilos per person.

[Thomas Durante]

Well, Durante tries. He's just limited mentally because of where he lives.

I'm from where you're from, dumb a$$.

Don, I have always thought that JFS (and possibly RK) were somehow involved in the AGMuK consortium. Even though they have their own badges sometimes, I think they could still have been members based on the hardware and designs we see. Look at the JFS & AGMuK CCCs, virtually identical obverse deisgn and several of the AGMuK makers hardware is the same as JFS clasps. Its possible that JFS started out making their CCCs under their own name and then joined the consortium to get a larger contract, or vice versa.

I also find it odd that we see numbered PAB & GABs that were marked with JFS. Then we have some that are EXACTLY IDENTICAL, but without the JFS maker mark. Why would JFS produce one with their mark, one without? They could have lent their dies to another member in the AGMuK group, but it could also mean that JFS started out making their own badges, but then took off the maker mark when the were producing the badge as a member of the consortium.

Too many identical design features and hardware sharing to dismiss JFS (and RK) as to have no involvment in AGMuK in my opinion.

That GCA thread has some good ideas thrown in and worth putting here IMO. There were at least a few more responses in that thread than we are seeing here, and I think its good to have those responses noted since some really good thinkers and researchers don't make it over to WAF anymore

Tom

[fugpaw]

Marc, I guess now days people only want to know if it is real and how much is it worth....

Don, I take your point but I don't think it's strictly true, there are still some of us trying to research I just don't have the time I would like to dedicate and enough access to the available research resources.

Mike

[Marc Garlasco]

Tom, that's why it's funny!

Anyway, do you think there is any link to the ball-hinge hardware? All these guys used a ball-hinge. Does that mean the ball-hinge hardware supplier was in Gablonz or the consortium made them? It is a VERY intricate design that would be expensive to make (a lot more than a sheet-metal hinge) and time consuming. Plus you need to counter-sink the catches. A lot of extra work.

Marc