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**Thomas Durante** · 06-15-2008, 01:50 PM

Great find Don! Very similar to the AS in triangle PAB mark. Is Pforzheim close to Gablonz, I will go check a map?

Basti has had some great success in tracking down and talking to some wartime companies and has often found wartime advertisements from many firms describing what products they sold. He would certainly find this interesting and can see what he comes up with for Schoellkopf.

Tom

**Don D.** · 06-15-2008, 01:53 PM

This is closer to Stuttgart I believe.

**greg.hays** · 06-15-2008, 03:13 PM

Very interesting Don, ertainly does bear a striking resemblence for sure. It seems the AS plot may be thickening.

**Martin W** · 06-15-2008, 06:10 PM

Don,

the location is definately a town that one associates with the manufacturing of awards.
Some of the well known makers from Pfortzheim include:
Otto Schickle
C.F Zimmeremann
Foerster & Barth
B.H Mayer.

Very intersting information.

Regards,Martin.

**Don D.** · 06-16-2008, 06:34 PM

I've shown this before to other collectors but they have tended to discount it. They look exclusively at TR and won't step back and realize that there were many companys that came before the TR, some even changing hands, some that disappeared at the end of the TR, and some that were forced to relocate. Personally, I find this coincedence to be a bit too close to be an accident. That is why I started the thread asking for Hindy Crosses with Gablonzer marks. I don't think they exist because Gablonz was in Czechoslovakia until it was annexed in 1938. I have never seen one with any Gablonz mark on it but I have seen one with AS Triangle. Mike Tucker claimed AS Triangle was A D Schwerdt of Gruenwald, by Stuttgart. The only thing that makes people think it is a Gablonzer mark is the construction technique which is of the style (crimping and finishes) that are found on the badges of the major Gablonz firms like JFS, A&S etc.... I would like to prove or disprove this theory once and for all but since nothing has turned up in Gablonz so far (or Neugablonz) I believe we must look further out. So here is what I am proposing for a theory:

1. Gablonzer companies did not make Hindy crosses because they were not part of the Third Reich at the time,

2. AS Triangle made Hindy crosses so,

3. AS Triangle was part of the Third Reich when the Hindy cross was instituted.

4. Therefore we must look elsewhere for AS Triangle.

5. Perhaps AS Triangle exported their badge technology to Gablon after the annexation.

6. So we are looking for a German metalworking/jeweler who was already around, perhaps not too far removed geographically, from the Gablonz area. Pforzheim is one location that fits.

Of course someone could show me a Hindy cross made by a Gablonzer company and sink my theory. That in itsself would be a small victory as it would help narrow the search.

**greg.hays** · 06-16-2008, 07:13 PM

Don, a sound theory. All too often regional associations are made to sound like Biblical truth. I remember a couple of years ago when I and others first put forward the theory that "UU" was weidman, based of course on the obvious connection to the L/51 IAB design, but regional (Wein) considerations had a strangle hold on what some thought was the obvious. I am not discounting that regional correlations exist.........of course they do. But how intentional and methodical were they really?

Why can't a common hardware type be used in two different and relatively distant regions? If that is what you are driving at I completely agree........this principle, and common thread in manufacturing of all types, holds true throughout time...........

I do remember an AS Hindenburg cross........in fact I think I remember a cross with a similiar marking having a "G" in it as well. Unfortunately much of my files have been lost with the loss of my hard drive moving back to the States.

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