Bimetallic F&R silver pab

[jambobbyb]

Hi guys i was lucky enough to get this piece delivered today (many thanks to Robert) I have no problem with the originality of this piece that isnt why im starting this thread,
I am interested in the badges construction as im fairly new to collecting Pabs, The front appears to be made from a separate piece of material to the reverse, you can see a deffinate join line between the front and the rear. The Eagle appears to be ever so slightly offset and you can see the tiny little crack under the beak where the two have been joined, are some F&R pabs Bimetallic does anyone else have one like this? or is this old news to you seasoned Pab collectors? the front has held 100% of its finish but the rear hasnt fared quite as well.
Im at work so cannot at this time supply any further images,

[jambobbyb]

Rear

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Jam,

I don't know of any other bimetallic badges other than the cupal badges, which this doesn't appear to be. Can you show where you see the distinct line you are talking about on the edge? Its possible that this was refinished on the obverse, and that is the line you are seeing. Its odd that the obverse is just so mint looking compared to the reverse.

Tom

[jambobbyb]

Hi Tom im at work at present so cant provide any better pics i will try when i get home, This one hasnt been refinished i can guarantee the silver colouring is a 100% match front and rear, you can just see what im talking about on the 1st picture as if the eagle has a shadow where is just doesnt quit fit perfectly, I will try and get a shot of the crack under the eagles beak this evening but its a tight spot and my camera isnt too good
I believe Detlev Niemann had exactly the same type pab with the front being mint and the reverse having lost a touch of its finish on his update this week i will see if its still up.
This is the example from DN from the same maker which shows similar wear to mine minty front not quite so mint reverse.
Cheers
James

[jambobbyb]

Here you go tom i have just taken the eagle from the 2nd shot you can see the shadow where the front is ever so slightly larger than the reverse and the two pieces just dont quite fit together perfectly, When viewed straight on this shows as a clear line where they havent joined 100%
this piece is also one of the heaviest Zinc awards i have come across it has a really solid heavy duty feel to it.

[jambobbyb]

HEHE its a quiet day at work today so i borrowed one of the ladys who works on my sections nail polish remover and a couple of tiny cotton buds and ran the acetone test this finish does not come off, Nothing at all returned on the cotton buds from either the front or the rear of this award, luckily i sit right at the back of the office so no one can see what im doing

[Greg]

Hi James,

I believe what you are referring to is probably the die shear marks, that often show as a line along the edge. While anything is possible, the body of the badge should be made of one piece of zinc alloy. The base material plates were heated and then put into the die stamping machine, and the sharp cutting edges of the die left the shear marks on the badge edges as they cut the metal. This sometimes resulted in a very thin line along the edge marking where the die halves met. It was often removed during hand finishing, but is sometimes still there. If the die halves had become slightly loose or offset, it can make the badge look like the "front part" and "back part" don't quite mate together right, but the badge is all one piece of metal (not counting the hardware). I'm at work too, and so unfortunately don't have any die shear mark images here.

Best,
Greg

[Dennis GT]

I have seen this on other F&R PAB before. I would say its fine.

Dennis

[jambobbyb]

Hi Greg and Dennis many thanks for your replys, I have tested the entire piece with acetone and cotton wool buds and then tested it using the not for the feint hearted nitromorse method non of this finish will come off Im wondering if the front got two coats of finish and the reverese only one, I will try and get some better pics later on as its certainly an interesting one.
Cheers
James

[jambobbyb]

Right chaps here are a few close ups

[jambobbyb]

And the head follow the yellow line and thats the way for want of a better word the join runs,
the red line shows the crack you can get a very thin piece of cotton betwee this one and it seems to go at least a couple of MM in.

[Greg]

Hi James,

I think the crack has to be caused by some sort of flaw (some kind of improper pulling apart?) in the die stamping process. If this badge is actually two different pieces of metal as front half and back half, that would be a first to me in the badge world.

But the obverse and reverse could certainly have different types of finish. Several PAB makers did that, and F&R was one of them. Rudolf Karneth, Adolf Scholze, the AS in triangle maker, and Hermann Aurich also did (among others). The finish was sometimes even applied by spray; I have a bronze F&R PAB where they missed spraying part of the edge.

Best,
Greg

[Nordmark]

Hello James,



I think the line you refer to is related to the production process. I remeber the line, because I was worried concerning an IAB of mine.


Have a look:

[Nordmark]

Sometimes these pieces are so mint, we have to get used to the look I guess...



Regards,


Daniel

[Militaria-Berlin]

I think what you are seeing are the shear marks.


Markus