Ron P's "A" GAB Revisited

[Tom Yanacek]

This is a very nice, original General Assault Badge, but I have to agree that it was not made by F.W. Assmann. I used to own one just like it, but without the 'A' marking. As far as I know, the maker of this exact type of GAB is still unknown. I have never seen one that was marked until now. It is anybody's guess as to when, why, and who added this marking. Based on all the available information, I can only conclude that this marking is a post-war enhancement to an otherwise original badge. As others have mentioned, this badge is clearly not Assmann. Assmann produced GABs by die-stamping (1 die), die-forging (1 die), and die-casting (4 dies/molds). This is a total of six dfferent sets of tooling, but all having the same obverse details. The badge that started this thread does not match up to an Assmann-made GAB. Also as mentioned by others, the 'A' is not correctly styled and it should be in relief rather than stamped in. The good thing to keep in mind, though, is that it is an original badge.

Best regards,
Tom

[Ron P]

Thanks guys for taking the time for the detailed explainations. So it seems that at some point some ***hole was adding the Assmann MM to at least some origional badges. Hmmm! Regards, Ron.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Tom, I think you mean "this badge DOES NOT match up to an Assmann made die".

I think Don summed it up perfectly, the GAB does not match assmann's marked GABs. The maker mark does not match up to the assmann mark. With those 2 facts, I find it hard to believe that this GAB was subcontracted out to assmann. Like was said, they had a nice progression from early stamped badges to late war cast badges. This unknown type of GAB had its own wartime progression, none of which were marked with an assmann mark.....until now. I like the finish on it, so its my opinion the badge was not refinished. So, IMO, the only logical conclusion is that it is an original badge with a fantasy assmann mark. How this was done so expertly is still a question, but from my study of CCCs, it is totally possible to have the finish stay mostly intact inside of a mark. Just look at the crimping on FLL, Juncker & S&L CCCs, most of the finish stays in the recesses of the crimp, even though it was deeply struck with a tool to keep in the backplate.

Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi guys,

Tom, I think you mean "this badge DOES NOT match up to an Assmann made die".Tom

That's exactly what I meant. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Tom. In my haste, I left out the most important word in the sentance. I have amended the post accordingly. Hope I didn't confuse anyone. I will NOT leave out NOT ever again, I hope.

Best regards,
Tom

[Stormfighter]

Great discussion guys! Thanks! I still think you need to consider that the inset of the "A" - whether it is Assmann or not - has the same finish as the badge and the same patina - and I'm sure it hasn't been refinished. As stated before, I wish you could see it in person because you might have to re-think it. I'll go out on a limb here, but I really don't think the maker mark has been added. To make this kind of deep stamping in the reverse of the badge, there would be some kind of impression from the post-war addition on the front. As Bill O'Reilly says: "What say you?" Trust me, I neither Ron or I are trying to push the issue because we are not trying to peddle it, but we think that this could possibly be a little-known maker's mark. If nothing else, it's worthy of not for GAB collectors.

Barry

[VonLuger]

Barry the only other possibility is that it is distribution mark...we find these on very rare occasion though ususally in number form or weird design stamped on Heer badges I can remember some PAB'shaving these stamps-DonD Has/Had one
This in the ONLY example of 1.29.1 unknown maker number#12 with any type of mark I have ever seen and there are fair amount of these badges out there..I have a frosted one with polished highlights that will make one creme in their shorts-so minty ones are out there and some recieived a copper undercoating to help retain finish more common the the 1.29.2 example..Again this is the ONLY example from this maker with a mark on it-I already stated what I believe added post war

[Stormfighter]

Jeff - thanks! I might add that this badge also has a polished swastika, which hasn't been brought up before and further shows that this badge was not refinished (in my opinion).

[Don D.]

Jeff - thanks! I might add that this badge also has a polished swastika, which hasn't been brought up before and further shows that this badge was not refinished (in my opinion).

Why would polishing be indicative of not being refinished? Has the modern world run out of buffers/polishing devices?

[Thomas Durante]

Yes Don. It is virtually impossible to polish metal these days

Really though, I agree that the finish is most likely original to the badge, but it is VERY HARD to determine whether a mark was added 20 years after the war of even 40 years after. Even if it was added in 1985, it would have over 20 years to gather a believable patina. Under the right storage conditions, I estimate this is not hard to do.

Leave it out in the rain for a week, I bet it would like very uniform.

Tom

[Don D.]

And the Hero mastered the silver finish at least 5 years ago. A new finish applied over the old finish would still show the bubbling.

[Tom Yanacek]

In my opinion, the badge is original without a doubt. I also feel fairly certain that the finish is original as I once owned one of these that had an identical looking finish. The only real issue is the stamped 'A' marking. If that marking is original to the piece, then it has to be something other than the mark of F.W. Assmann. I suppose it is possible that it is the marking of some other manufacturer, distributor, or even some kind of inspection mark. But I still feel that it is most likely a post-war enhancement. It looks enough like the Assmann logo that I can only view it with suspicion: An inaccurate attempt to simulate the Assmann logo on an unmarked badge. The Assmann logo on General Assault Badges should always be in relief (raised up from the surface of the badge). The logo was cut into the reverse die so that the marking was present on every badge produced. However, the 'A' marking in question was obviously stamped into the badge as a separate process from the actual manufacturing.
I will post some pictures of original General Assault Badges by Assmann. In all examples, the obverse designs are essentially the same but do not match the badge that started this thread. I will also show the maker logos for each badge. The 'A' marking in question does not match any of these wartime logos. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that the badge is definitely not Assmann.
Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

The badge on the left is a die-stamped GAB by Assmann. The badge on the right is a die-forged GAB by Assmann.

[Tom Yanacek]

Reverse of the die-stamped (left) and die-forged (right) examples:

[Tom Yanacek]

Two examples of die-cast (injection-molded) GABs by Assmann. They actually had four different molds that were used, but the obverse details were identical for each. The example on the left is from mold #1. The example on the right is from mold #4.

[Tom Yanacek]

Reverse of die-cast Assmann GABs. Mold #1 (left) and mold #4 (right).