One more SOS Find - FLL Heer Flak

[Marc Garlasco]

Tom,

Great stuff! While I generally agree with the comparissons I am less convinced by the catch as it lacks the elephant's nose end. Of course it may have been trimmed. Like I said when we were looking at it - Linden box, Linden hardware. Could be. I await more examples - because if there are more fakes they will have screwy different hardware, and if there are more real one they will have the same hardware. Did you show Hritz? He probably has half-dozen in his sock drawer...
Marc

[Thomas Durante]

Hey Marc,

Remember, we showed Bob at the SOS. He liked it, especially the yellowing of the lacquer. Said it takes quite a long time for lacquer to harden and become brittle. Who knows. As you say, the verdict is still out on this one and look forward to more discussions on this little mystery as we find more evidence.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

Oh, by the way, what are you talking about when you say "elephant nose" on the catch?? I have 2 Second pattern FLL CCCs, both with the same round wire catch as the flak. All 3 look to be cut the same, no bumps or big dents anywhere, especially on the tip. All 3 look the same.

Tom

[Heer Flak]

Oh, by the way, what are you talking about when you say "elephant nose" on the catch?? I have 2 Second pattern FLL CCCs, both with the same round wire catch as the flak. All 3 look to be cut the same, no bumps or big dents anywhere, especially on the tip. All 3 look the same.

Tom

Tom, what Marc means is that the beak is not right. I don't like the beak either. I do not own an FLL badge, but does the PAB eagle look the same? Can we get a close up of the eagle of an FLL PAB? This would help. Also, we have seen fake badges with correct hardware, but the front of the badge could be all wrong.

Eric

[Graeme]

Hi Tom

At least you are presenting your badge with plenty of ideas and evidence. Some of the guys that are not keen have some good points also.

Although I am unfamiliar with Flak badges the couple of points I am not keen on are, the swas, which looks all mishapen between the arms, and the general oval appearance of the badge, especially viewed from the reverse. The wreath is not nicely rounded.

Can you post a full reverse pic with the pin closed, all of the FLL IABs I have show a characteristic bend mark on the pin near the hinge area.
This type of hinge is found on other maker IABs, but in combination with the small round catch plate, is not often seen.

In fact I have only seen one FLL IAB with a similar combination. I will post a pic for you.

best regards
Graeme

PS Just noticed this discussion elsewhere and the "dodgy" swas was mentioned there.

[Bob Hritz]

End the angst; mail it to Hritz!!!!!

I like the badge and have never seen anything like it. Unless we see a flood of them by the MAX show, I believe it is a wartime piece.

Bob Hritz

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Graeme, here are some more pics of the reverse and a closeup of the pin. If you are talking about the flat spot on the pin where it meets the hinge, then this one has one also. As far as the oval shape of the wreath, I agree with you that it doesn't look perfectly symmetrical to me either. The outline looks rough and I totally agree with you on the swastika arms.

Something else to mix the pot, I have an L/14 marked IAB that also shares this same exact hardware, oval hinge and "?" catch on round catchplate. It is interesting to me because the IAB is Friedrich Orth, one of the Vienna makers and this Flak badge shares the same obverse as the flak badge from the Vienna makers.

As far as the elephant nose, I still don't really see what you guys are talking about. Marc mentions that it is on the catch, not the eagle's head, right? I also don't have any FLL PABs, but I am sure that the eagles are not a match to this flak badge. But, the eagle on the FLL CCC is not a match to FLL PABs nor their IABs, so I don't think that it matters that much from this aspect.

Bob, I would be happy to mail her to you for additional analyzing, but I am afraid you will like her too much and I would never see her again. Seriously though, I am happy to keep her for now and feel comfortable with the badge and carton until we have more evidence.

Thanks guys.

Tom

[Thomas Durante]

pin

[Bob Hritz]

Hi guys,


Bob, I would be happy to mail her to you for additional analyzing, but I am afraid you will like her too much and I would never see her again. Seriously though, I am happy to keep her for now and feel comfortable with the badge and carton until we have more evidence.

Thanks guys.

Tom

Tom,

How right you are!!!!!

Bob Hritz

[HuD]

Hello gents,
i believe i just got another of those interesting FLL Flak Badges.
This time is without the carton box and to my eyes appears to be in a slightly worn condition.
I think that design and features are the same and also weigth and dimensions are a match with the few other examples previously shown.
Here you have some pics for reference and really hope to get your opinion on it.
Many thanks
Stefano

[HuD]

some details on front

[HuD]

and some on the hardware

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Stefano,

Great to see another one of these pop up, and I agree with you that it appears identical to my example and the few others I have on file. Typical FLL reverse hardware and also nice, sloppy soldering around the catch, a very typical FLL trait

Tom