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**Denis** · 07-09-2003, 01:00 AM

Hello
Here are several pics from the latest fake FLL clasp. Note the way the central backplate is attached.

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fake_fll_nks_obv.jpg (46.2 KB, 379 views)

**Denis** · 07-09-2003, 01:02 AM

Here is the obverse

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fake_fll_nks_rev.jpg (46.7 KB, 378 views)

**Denis** · 07-09-2003, 01:03 AM

Here are close up views

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fake_fll_nks_details.jpg (47.4 KB, 372 views)

**Denis** · 07-09-2003, 01:05 AM

Here is another attempt to fake the FLL clasp and was shown by Detlev Niemann in his good Reproduction section
The central backplate is differently attached from the previous fake.
An original clasp is shown below.

**Denis** · 07-09-2003, 01:14 AM

Here is a good and rare 1st pattern FLL clasp which was recently sold by Detlev. Note the attachment of the hinge which is specific to this 1st pattern :
I have not found the "old" fake of the FLL (i.e. the one bearing only the FLL logo and not the designer mark). This one was produced by/for Johannes Floch at the end of the 80s. I suggest to search onto the whole forum "Floch" : there was some weeks ago an informative thread aboiut this individual where many of his "production" was displayed.
Hope this helps
Denis

Attached Files

ccc_bronze_fll_1st_dn_240eur.jpg (79.3 KB, 367 views)

**Luft62** · 07-09-2003, 05:22 AM

Hi,
Just my 2c worth... I was always had the understanding that with the later FLL CCC's the easiest way to tell real from fake was that on the genuine examples the back of the letter "L" in "FLL" curves - somewhat like ")".

In general, I find a good initial check for ANY CCC is to check the bottom of the centre box from behind - you will find that on 98% of the fakes that the right bottom corner (when looking at the reverse of the award) is poorly defined and a bit higher than the one on the left.
On genuine clasps, this right hand bottom corner is usually almost a mirror image - both in shape and position - to the corner on the lower left.
Check out the pics in this thread and you will see what I mean.

For some reason, just about all the crap clasps have this "feature". I am not sure if some genuine clasps also have this feature but none I have seen that are maker marked have.

**Rolf D.** · 07-09-2003, 08:15 PM

Luft62---What do you mean when you say

In general, I find a good initial check for ANY CCC is to check the bottom of the centre box from behind - you will find that on 98% of the fakes that the right bottom corner (when looking at the reverse of the award) is poorly defined and a bit higher than the one on the left.

This is very confusing and I would like some clarification to what was said about mirror images and all. Can you point it out in some pictures by circling what you are reffering to please?

Thanks!

:flak_helm

**Luft62** · 07-10-2003, 09:40 PM

Hi Rolf,
When work settles down a bit I will get some pics of both known good and bad clasps together; highlighting the points I mentioned above.
It was from a previous posting on this forum (perhaps mid-2001?) regarding the then current crop of very good fake CCCs that I found out about the differences between the box corners bordering both the grenade head and bayonet grip on the CCC.
I will try and locate this original posting/thread as well - hopefully during the coming weekend.
It is a method I have found that will detect a very high proportion of fakes.

**Denis** · 07-11-2003, 12:32 AM

Hello
@ Tim : I think I have understood what you mean
But anyway the not symetric "prongs" on the reverse of the faked FLL spange is in my opinion not so important : all the faked FLL clasps that I could see have a wrong attachment for the central backplate (See the original one shown on Detlev's pic for a good attachment).
Moreover, on the obverse of the clasp, the FLL svaz is very specific (compare both fake and good one) and this point hasn't been faked yet.
Regards
Denis

**Luft62** · 07-11-2003, 09:23 AM

Hi Denis,
I think you misunderstand, it is not how the backplate is crimped on but actual differences with the clasp at the bottom centre "box" that has the crossed grenade and bayonet in it.
This feature is not only on FLL fakes, but you will find is a feature of most fake CCC of any make. Sometimes the differences are not so great as in the following pic but you will soon be able to spot these features as you check more and more clasps.
Here is a very quick diagram I knocked up tonight. I have a better one with many more examples but I have not been able to complete it.

**Rolf D.** · 07-11-2003, 09:46 AM

Thank you!

Now I understand what you mean by a mirror image!
Thanks!

:flak_helm

**Denis** · 07-15-2003, 12:26 PM

Thanks Tim
now I get it !

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