Question about the awarding of a CCC to PAB50 man

[DaveNZ]

Hello all and happy new year!

I have recently obtained a panzer grouping.

The soldier was awarded the Pab, Pab25 and Pab50 but I find it curious that he was not awarded a CCC.

If one had partaken in at least 50 tank assaults would that not mean also being eligible for at least a bronze CCC?

Or are things not quite so simple as that when it comes to being awarded the CCC?

His soldbuch has no mention of a CCC and another thing I find odd is that has earned the EK1 AFTER he had won the PAB25.

I would like to learn why this is like this.

My guess is that to earn a PAB 25/50 etc is not so much down to taking part in front line action and acts of bravery, but rather more for being a part of an actual assault in general.

Where are the EK1 is earned for acts of bravery and courage, not just service.

cheers

[Angel Farré]

Counting days for the numbered assault badges and for the CCC has differences.

You can receive the PAB 50 because you have took part in 50 days in which you meet the prescribed criteria to count as assault days but none of them count as CC days as you not reach the criteria for them.

I have seen Soldbuchs with two different sheets, one counting Sturmtäge for numbered assault badges and other with Nahkampftäge for the CCC.


It will be nice if you show us the group.

Regards

Angel

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Dave,

The answer to your question is quite simple, a tank engagement is nothing like a close combat day. If the PAB was the silver grade, these were for tank commanders, drivers, gunners and radiomen and these guys would not ordinarily be in close quarter combat (close enough to see the whites of the enemies eyes and engage the enemy with hand held weapons). These guys would would only be eligible for a close combat day if their tank was destroyed and they were forced into ground combat. In situations like this, they would often be employed in tank hunter/killer teams to destroy other enemy tanks, either with panzerfausts or with mines, etc. Actions like this would earn them close combat days.

Now, if the PAB was Bronze, then this was more for the infantry that supported the tanks (rifle regiments, rifle battalions, reconaissance, etc.). These guys were much closer to the action and able to acquire close combat days. These guys often would go in reconaissance in force and eliminate anti-tank guns, or forward mortar positions, etc. and could rack of close combat days that way.

Tom

[DaveNZ]

Thanks Tom: all makes sense

have a great 2008!

[Jono]

Any chance of seeing the group Dave?

[DaveNZ]

yes I have plenty of pictures but alas I am not an association member

I can email them to you if you would like?

[DaveNZ]

Counting days for the numbered assault badges and for the CCC has differences.

You can receive the PAB 50 because you have took part in 50 days in which you meet the prescribed criteria to count as assault days but none of them count as CC days as you not reach the criteria for them.

I have seen Soldbuchs with two different sheets, one counting Sturmtäge for numbered assault badges and other with Nahkampftäge for the CCC.


It will be nice if you show us the group.

Regards

Angel

Hi Angel, thanks for your reply: i did not see it until after I saw Tom's.

I understand now: it is simply that the criteria for these two awards are different.

I would be very happy to have pictures posted here but I am not an association member

[Jono]

yes I have plenty of pictures but alas I am not an association member

I can email them to you if you would like?

I sent you a PM

[DaveNZ]

Gotcha Jono,

hows life over the ditch>?

cheers for your offer to help.

OK I have sent you emails (5) with all the pictures of this group.

Feel free to either:

a. start a new thread with these pictures

or

b. tack them onto this one

Im not sure what the best way to go is

many thanks

Dave

[Jono]

Gotcha Jono,

hows life over the ditch>?

cheers for your offer to help.

OK I have sent you emails (5) with all the pictures of this group.

Feel free to either:

a. start a new thread with these pictures

or

b. tack them onto this one

Im not sure what the best way to go is

many thanks

Dave

Life over here is the same as always: too many roos
I started a new thread and the pics are up

[Michael Everett]

[quote=DaveNZ;2377598]Hello all and happy new year!

I have recently obtained a panzer grouping.

The soldier was awarded the Pab, Pab25 and Pab50 but I find it curious that he was not awarded a CCC.

If one had partaken in at least 50 tank assaults would that not mean also being eligible for at least a bronze CCC?

Or are things not quite so simple as that when it comes to being awarded the CCC?

His soldbuch has no mention of a CCC and another thing I find odd is that has earned the EK1 AFTER he had won the PAB25.

Dear Dave,

Another explanation may be that the soldier could have served in the Infantry prior to joining the Panzer Corps and received the CCC. As Tom points about in his excellent work on the CCC, the awarding of the CCC may have been made retroactively, under certain 'exceptions' for those serving continously on the Russian front since June 22, 1941.

Joachim Peiper is an example of a Panzer Commander who received the Silver CCC retroactively for his time as an Infantry Company Commander.
This trend seems to exist more-so with Waffen-SS panzer personnel as ALL Waffen-SS divsions started the war as either motorized or straight infantry.

MIKE

MIKE

[Ludwig]

A Swedish SS-Unterscharführer remembers: when we fought from, or supported by, our armoured vehicles it was counted as Panzerkampftage (Panzerkampfabzeichen in Bronze "25"). When we fought as footsoldiers, the vehicles in cover way back, it was counted as Nahkampftage (Nahkampfspange in Silber). Kampf!