WH WIEN Discussion

[Marc Garlasco]

Thanks for posting the badge - NOW we have something beyond droll statements...

[Marc Garlasco]

Can we see the maker mark? The hardware is certainly postwar.
Thanks!
Marc

[Johnny R]

Detail

Again crap. the reason why I find this particular copy so interesting is the early date, 1962. So, was there a wartime badge they were copying with this style mark? The thing I find most interesting is that this obviously is not from a real die, was there a real one to pattern it from or, did better fakes later pattern themselves after early copies using this logo. You need a Vet piece or documentation to really know.

[Johnny R]

Badge

So now there is a known bad fake with this mark not made from original dies dating to 1962. I would have posted earlier but the thread diversified early. Hopefully there will be more, this obviously is a different die than the first one posted.

[Marc Garlasco]

Looks like the mm matches. But my hardware is different. Interesting. What I find most interesting is Hobacher did not make Heeresflak that I know of. On GCA they posetd a WH WIEN believed to be real due to wartime hardware. I will try to post the link.
Marc

[Marc Garlasco]

Here it is:

http://www.germancombatawards.com/th...id=2653&page=1

[Johnny R]

Award catalog

Does anybody have a period award catalog for the firm?

[Marc Garlasco]

They made Luft flak but the WH WIEN is the only Hobacher Flak I have ever seen. I don't have their catalogue, but perhaps someone does. The ideas on GCA are quite interesting, though I am not 100% sold on the validity of the variant catch yet.
Marc

[Richard T]

Greetings all,

Has anyone ever obtained one of these WH Wien badges from a combat vet's bring backs? Of all the US and German vets I've crossed paths with and viewed their items I've never seen one of these. It would seem to me if real, someone, somewhere would have a vet aquired one.

Best to all,
Richard

[Marc Garlasco]

Richard,

Agreed. Of note is Detlev lists them as real in his book, and Weitze has one for sale just this week. Certainly dealers have a vested interest, but I just note this out of curiosity. As for myself, I have never gotten a WH WIEN from a vet, and both of the most knowledgeable Heeresflak collectors I know hold the WIEN badges to be, at best, questionable.c

Still, I think if we keep pushing we can get more examples posted for comparison and we can try to see if any use Hobacher hardware.

Thanks,
Marc

[Heer Flak]

After spending some time looking at these badges and the ones on the other forum I believe them all to be fake. Here are my following reasons.

1. First, these fakes could have been made back even farther than 1962. A possible explination, which has already been brought up, is that people needed money and sold reproductions as souviners to the GI's.

2. Second, is that when they were making these reproductions using anything that they had on hand to make a buck. Thus, the variations in different badges.

3. Third, in picture number 3, the accepted version supposedly, shares many similiar traits with other badges we are calling fake. Like the first two badges displayed in this thread. Take a close look at badge number 2 in this thread and you can see, the reverse of the badge itself and not the hardware, are the same. Even though the hardware is not the same the badges are. Note, the bump on the 88 barrel is not present and the wing is the same as picture number 3, the supposedly accepted version.

4. Forth, on the hardware of the supposedly good badge has a knock in the catch. This is supposed to be the smoking gun??? How come I can not find it on other assault badges such as a PAB?

5. Fifth, as we know fakers are constantly changing their badges so they will pass for real ones. This happens all the time and this is being done currently in the PAB world and many others.

6. Finally, there are just to many variations and differences. If this was made by WH there would have been some providence. Where is it???

This is only my observation and I welcome any comments.

Eric

[Heer Flak]

Picture Number 3

[Heer Flak]

Picture Number 4

[Heer Flak]

Picture Number 5