FLL Heeresflak 4 Discussion

[kenneth wolfe]

Hi

Hi Robert,

I got this from a friend and I'm the one who sent it to Marc. So the picture I posted and the pictures that Marc posted are of the same badge. My question is where did the picture with the hand come from?

Kenneth

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert,

I got this from a friend and I'm the one who sent it to Marc. So the picture I posted and the pictures that Marc posted are of the same badge. My question is where did the picture with the hand come from?

Kenneth

Kenneth,

Like I confirmed in post #55, Lakeside Trader. I previously posted it for study.

Robert

[Robert P.]

Who's on first?

Robert

[Don D.]

So do we have two badges or three badges here?

[Robert P.]

No, this all started months ago when this boxed badge was advertized on Lakeside Trader. Paul actually didn't have it posted yet, and wanted assistance. I posted the badge with interests in buying it if it was judged good. Well, a few opinions later, and I took to the popular opinion that is was a fake/copy, repro...

Now, here we have the same badge being discussed again, with links to the past, both on the badge and the box.

Robert

[Robert P.]

So do we have two badges or three badges here?

Don,
From what I gather from these threads we have more than one for sure. I'd like to see all we have, posted here simultaneously. I'm glad someone here on this forum got this badge in the tissue and box. I only hope it's an original period FLL, like Marc is trying to study it out to be. He lightened the laquered image/scheen of the badge by adjusting his camera's F-stop in order to properly see the full detail of the badge.

Robert

[kenneth wolfe]

Hi

There's two badges. The one I posted is the same one Marc posted because I sent it to him. The other one which is in a hand is the one from Lakeside trader according to Robert. Robert are you friends with Paul? Could you ask him if he still has the badge because if he does then there's 2 out there. If he doesn't could you ask him really nice where the badge found a new home at.



Kenneth

[Robert P.]

There's two badges. The one I posted is the same one Marc posted because I sent it to him. The other one which is in a hand is the one from Lakeside trader according to Robert. Robert are you friends with Paul? Could you ask him if he still has the badge because if he does then there's 2 out there. If he doesn't could you ask him really nice where the badge found a new home at.



Kenneth

I'll do this, Kenneth. I know Paul and have spoken with him often in pursuit of more EK's. I'll run this by him, you bet. I'll give him a call tomorrow.

Robert

[kenneth wolfe]

Hiwho supposably has one of these too

Hi Robert,

Thanks, this will be a big help in verify the authenticity of this badge. I read in the thread you posted a while back that another forum member named MedalMike has one of these too. So I wrote him and asked if he could provide us with some pictures of his badge or if he sold it where it went to.


Kenneth

[Robert P.]

Hi Robert,

Thanks, this will be a big help in verify the authenticity of this badge. I read in the thread you posted a while back that another forum member named MedalMike has one of these too. So I wrote him and asked if he could provide us with some pictures of his badge or if he sold it where it went to.


Kenneth

Outstanding. Maybe one of these badges mentioned came from a vet. That would seal the deal, potentially.

Robert

[Marc Garlasco]

It is Kenneth's badge, and it will be in the post tomorrow, and they are the SAME badges! We have ONE badge here boys.

Marc

[Robert P.]

It is Kenneth's badge, and it will be in the post tomorrow, and they are the SAME badges! We have ONE badge here boys.

Marc

There you have it, men!

Robert

[kenneth wolfe]

Hi

Hi Marc,

You know that the one that's pictured in the hand is not a picture I took. I think they are the same one which is really wierd. So what do you think? Are you still on the fence with this one? I hope Robert can get some info and that MedalMike chimmes in here and maybe we could get some more answers or maybe this badge is the same one everyone has come in contact with. Here's the part that doesn't make sense for me. I got this badge from a friend that I trust and he got it from a friend that he trusts and that guy got it from a vet. No lies!!! I know stories don't mean anything but I trust this guy and believe that he's telling me the truth.


Kenneth

[Robert P.]

Kenneth,

When you receive it back from Marc, please post photos of it with it's box and tissue. We'll compare it with the original photos we got initially from Paul Hogle. We'll then know without a doubt whether it's the same badge or no. Try and catch the same angle, Kenneth. There has been some mention of one badge having 'flashing' filed away, or that there are two different badges. We can eliminate any confusion with new photos. I'll call Paul in the meantime, and go forward with this study. We're all trying to get on the same page with this. Someone please contact 'MedalMike' and see if he still owns an example, and if he will post photos for us. We're bouncing around like the Three Stooges, and need to bring some sense to this.

Robert

[Marc Garlasco]

In my most HUMBLE opinion based on empiracle fact the strength of super glue, IT IS ONE DAMN BADGE!

Anyway Kenneth, I honestly appreciate you got it from a trusted source who got it from a trusted source, yadda, yadda, but that is meaningless. We study badges based only on the merit of the item. If there is FIRST HAND provenance it can help inform our decisions, but once an item passes hands the chain of ownership breaks down.

Is this badge original? Lets look at the points:

Original:

1) The badge has FLL hardware
2) The badge came in an FLL box, though one not normally associated with Flak badges
3) The badge is not a crude casting (though microcasting not ruled out)
4) The badge weight and measurements are within known tolerances

Not original:

1) FLL is not a known maker of Heeresflak badges
2) The design is based on the Vienna badge but is different enough and has never been encountered before (this is important as people like detlev who gets badges from Vets would probably have seen one before, though this is not conclusive)

Bottom line - we have a very interesting badge here that needs more study. At this point I am happy to put it in my book under the "interesting new stuff you decide if you want it because it really needs more study" heading. It is premature to label it authentic or fake based solely upon this one unatributed example.

You have a VERY interesting badge, and I appreciate the opportunity to study it!
Thanks,
Marc