FLL Heeresflak 4 Discussion

[Marc Garlasco]

Gents,

A member sent me his unmarked Heeresflak that comes in a marked FLL box. I present it for comments. The weight and measurements are all within what I expect to find. BUT, Linden is not a known maker of the Heeresflak. This is my first concern with the badge. The next is the mishapen head and swas. Note how the head leans forward, unlike all other Vienna - the badge is definately a "Vienna design" but it has 23 rivets along the base - far more than it should. The hardware is magnetic. The hinge is a generic one and FLL did use it, but the catch is not what I have seen on FLL Luftwaffe Flaks. The box seems double-stamped, and to my eyes the stamping looks pretty fresh. Personally I do not like this one - but I am open to discussion.

Marc

[Robert P.]

Marc,

I agree the swastika looks very crude. The hardware, as you say, is what you would expect from FLL. Having it in hand is the finish of the obverse and reverse very smooth as a die-forged piece? Does the edge of the badge look good? I don't know how good this new micro-casting is, but one thing I would expect to see on a newly-made micro-cast piece is a good finish. This one has none, unless it has that factory varnish.



Robert

[Marc Garlasco]

My photos don't show it - I take them detailed at f11 which tends to cut down on finish but shows everything. The front has a nice, almost shiny varnish-like finish to it. The edges were all filed, and there is a tiny seem on the bottom. I am not sure if it is where the die met or a casting seem. I will try to photo it - but not easy. Let me explain on the hardware - the CATCH is not the typical FLL, only the hinge is, and the hinge is a generic one used by many. The back is nice and smooth. She actually smells like gun oil if that makes any sense. I am trying to find my magnifying glass - my kids took it...

[Marc Garlasco]

Just did a black-light test. The case and tissue seem to pass, but when I look closer there are tiny fibers woven into it that glow like a purple sun...what does that mean?

[Robert P.]

Marc,

I guess I was thinking along the lines of the shepherd hook we see on the unknown maker pilot, which we often attribute to FLL. Even at that the base of the catch is different. Sorry to have confused anyone on that point.

Robert

[Don D.]

I guess the first thing to do is examine the two items independently. I don't know squat about boxes but we have people that do.

As for the badge- for an apparantly unissued piece the eagles feet are almost worn flat. What is the stuff that looks like fine dirt next to the eagle's left leg? Lastly, wouldn't this have been a die forged badge versus a die cast badge? If so you would not have a line. Oh yeah, the swaz makes me want to cry.

[Marc Garlasco]

No prob - I look for the elephant nose on FLL wire catches. Anyway, seem shot coming in 5...

[Robert P.]

Just did a black-light test. The case and tissue seem to pass, but when I look closer there are tiny fibers woven into it that glow like a purple sun...what does that mean?

I wouldn't discard the case on that alone - phosphates were used for coloring back during the period. Some threads used on tunics glow, while others don't. It would be nice to compare it to another of the same type with the light test also.

I would be concerned if the FLL ink stamp glowed.
Robert

[Marc Garlasco]

Don,

I think the white stuff is varnish that has cracked on the swas...

Marc

[Marc Garlasco]

Edge shot:

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Marc, does one side of the hingepin have a big head, like you see on the FLL CCCs? Looks like a nail and is a signature of FLL.

I would also like to throw out that not all "vienna designs" companies were from Vienna. Look at the CCC, Deschler used the same die as Souval and Hobacher. I think there are some GABs that also share the "vienna" design but aren't from Vienna, so I wouldn't negate this flak just because it is not from a company in Vienna.

Tom

[Marc Garlasco]

Don,
Do the lips and shape of the head remind you of the lizard-man?
Marc

[Marc Garlasco]

Tom,

No nailhead - just a metal rod. I am not saying it is fake! That is why we are discussing it. It is very believeable, but has some things that give me pause. I also believe Marcus had told me these boxes are fake, but I can't find the e-mail.

Marc

[Don D.]

Don,
Do the lips and shape of the head remind you of the lizard-man?
Marc

No, but the striations around the outside of the wreath reminds me of file marks. How does the inside of the wreath look? Also between the eagle's head and wings?

[Marc Garlasco]

Pretty much the same - that line runs all around the badge with the striations only on one side of it ...