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    #16
    Flak88

    Flak88,
    There are 9 makers of the Heeresflak and this does not conform to any I know
    .

    Did you get this info from a book or is it information you put together? Is there anyway I could get this list from you?

    kENNETH

    Comment

      #17
      Originally posted by kenneth wolfe View Post
      Flak88,
      .

      Did you get this info from a book or is it information you put together? Is there anyway I could get this list from you?

      kENNETH
      Thats sort of an understatement

      Tom
      If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

      New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
      [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

      Comment

        #18
        The book will be out in a couple of months - I am kinda writing it

        The makers:

        Aurich
        Foerster & Barth
        Funke & Bruninghaus
        Juncker
        LM
        S&L
        Souval
        and two unknown makers, both Vienna designs

        Comment

          #19
          Fair

          Ok fair enough. Well then I guess you will have to let me know when it comes out.

          Kenneth

          Comment

            #20
            Hi

            Robert,

            I checked your badge and yeah it looks a lot a like. Where did you come across this badge at? If it was on the internet then do you remember which state? I got this from a friend who got it and a couple of other badges at a garage sale. I'll have to ask him for more details but from what I remember the people were just sell some old things from their grandfather. I did see on the other thread that this is not the only one out there that looks like this and is in an original FLL box. Is it possible that this is an unknown badge? The reason that makes me think this is: if there's three known examples floating around like this badge and it's always paired with this FLL box isn't this a little strange. I mean
            A fake badge, ok not uncommon
            A fake badge in a real box, ok again not uncommon
            Three fake badges that are exactly alike, found in different parts of the US and in Europe and were in three exact same boxes that are known to be original and pretty difficult to come by: Very, very unlikely.

            I think in general the rules and algorithmic thought process used to ID something as not time period should also be used when trying find providence in a piece. For example I believe most people use a general rule of thumb when identify a badge that is not well known or unknown, and that rule is if the badge seems not add up (obverse and reverse hardware etc.) or is suspicious in some way it is deemed not time period. Well if you apply this same logic to this badge it doesn't add up. There's too many badges out there in too many places (one which is vet acquired) that are married up with these FLL boxes and I don't think that there's mass conspiracy to connect these boxes to a fake badge. Is it possible? Of course it is but is it likely, NO. Please understand that this is not an argument but a discussion. I'm not one of those guys who gets mad when they find out that their badge is bad. I just thought that this could be a possible lead to something that's unknown about these badges.

            Kenneth

            Comment

              #21
              That is why I asked you for weight and measurements...

              Comment

                #22
                Kenneth,

                When you read back in the old thread regarding the recently ID'ed Luftwaffe Flak badge Marc (Flak 88) found in period photos that another member sent him for his book, you'll see that this badge was deemed 'suspect' by many for quite a long time. It was 'put on the shelf' so to speak.
                I am inclined to go along with Marc's opinion on your badge, only because of his tremendous knowledge on the subject. In the thread, others more knowledgeable than I voiced the same opinion as Marc, members like Frank Heukemes, who has been collecting nearly his entire life. Marcus Hatton, a leading moderator, etc. To put it in proper perspective, I'm still a novice at these Heer flak badges. I'm depending on these old salts to help me through the darkness. Marc's book will be the greatest tool we collectors will have, along with the live help we can get here on the forum. I'd personally follow up on the 'vet acquired' piece you spoke of, and really prove this one out if that's possible, but even then this is not always relaiable. I personally found a badge and SS collar patch amongst a vet acquired grouping last summer, which both turned out to be totally bogus. So you find out that not all that these vets have is real. Badge makers back in the period were given a 'blueprint' to follow in the manufacturing of these badges. I know this little from reading the threads here on the forum. Each badge has specific weights and measurements that can be of great help in ID'ing pieces. Try and give Marc this information.

                Robert

                Comment

                  #23
                  Weights

                  I won't be able to post the weight or the measurements until Monday. I'm visiting my brother for the weekend but I will post the weights and measurements Monday night when I get back.

                  Kenneth

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Kenneth,
                    Thanks - I will keep an open, if skeptical, outlook on this. You raise very good points. But these Heeresflaks are faked out the wazoo. We will see where the data leads.
                    Marc

                    Comment

                      #25
                      Hi

                      Sorry it took a little longer to get the measurements then I previously expected. I couldn't get the weight because I don't know where my scale is and none of the places around here sell ones that measure to milligrams. So Flak88 if you could suggest a place on the internet I could pick one up for a deal that would be great. So here are the measurements.
                      Ht: 6cm
                      Width: 4.4 cm
                      Thickness: 2.5 mm

                      I definitely see a type of lacquer applied to the badge. That's one of the reasons that the swastika looks weird.

                      Kenneth

                      Comment

                        #26
                        I think Kenneth e bay is your best bet for such scales, unless you have a local jeweller perhaps that could weigh it for you ?

                        Kr


                        Marcus

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Kenneth,

                          If you're looking for an inexpensive scale that will work quite nicely in the hobby, a gunpowder scale that weighs charges up to 500 grains works well. Do a conversion from grains to grams on an online conversion table/chart, and you've got it. An Ohaus 10-10 works fine, or an electric digital RCBS (I use).

                          Robert

                          Comment

                            #28
                            check your local head shops....digital scales are approx 35$ or so

                            Comment

                              #29
                              The measurements are in the ballpark. Would you be willing to send it to me for inspection?
                              Marc

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Hi

                                I maybe interested in sending it to you but the thing is I really don't even know your name. I love contributing to our beloved collecting field in anyway I can. I have done so in the past and would not mind doing it again but I will need you to PM me some personal information and we can go from there.

                                Kenneth

                                Comment

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