Pab Etc

[Philippe DB]

Anthony,

What about this one, good or bad?

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

AWS r

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys

After some thinking (my head still hurts ) I already have come this far.

The solder with the distinctive line pattern wasn't used on all AWS badges.

The one in tuckers book shows this solder pattern arround the hinge and catch, Frank's bronze one (see 1 thread in my first respons) only shows this solder pattern arround the catch. So it would be logical to assume that if they didn't need it at a certain time arround the hinge area that in a later stage they also stopped using it arround the catch.

So if we can't rely on that solder pattern on what should we rely to reach a conclusion on the authenticity of these PAB's?

KR
Philippe

[Anthony]

Hi Phillipe,

The crimping a the top of the badge is the main thing, that should always be the same IMO, the badge is made with a slot for the pin block and pin to sit in, the catch sits in a hole and I have seen different ideas to keep it there from AWS, IMO the way of securing the catch was not great, so there are some variations as to how it is held in, BUT, it should always be in a slot, it is just the method that they used to keep it there that can differ a little bit, mine seems to have a disc placed over the hole to keep the catch in place, others have the same disc but it has a serated or filed look to it.

Phillipe, with the badge that you have posted unfortunately it is missing the swaz this is important, and I don't see some things on the front like the others at the moment.

Regards,

Anthony

[Philippe DB]

Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the input, I think I understand what you are saying but probably the only way to realy notice the difference is to hold a good and a bad one side by side because most of what we see on these pics just isn't detailed enough.

Concerning the bronze one I posted. I found that one on a site as an example of a fake AWS, so you were right in your assumptions. But did you reach that conclusion by looking at the front or at the back, because from these pics I realy couldn't tell.

KR
Philippe

[IVAN]

Hi Philippe,

in this kind of PAB the crimped plate for catch is very important, but must look every part of the badge too, for example in these ones is important the hallmark too and in this example is not good looking as must to be.

Ivan

[Philippe DB]

Hi Ivan,

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly. If you talk about the crimping of the catch you not necessarely mean that it has to have the solder with the typical pattern.

KR
Philippe

[IVAN]

Originally posted by Philippe DB
Hi Ivan,

Just to make sure that I understand you correctly. If you talk about the crimping of the catch you not necessarely mean that it has to have the solder with the typical pattern.

KR
Philippe

Hi,

if I want buy a AWS 1942, I would buy ONLY with crimped catch, but I said in the badge you show is wrong the hallmark too.

follow is the detail of mine

[Philippe DB]

Hi Ivan,

Still breaking my head over this one.

If you say that this is the only acceptable crimping technique then all the badges shown here by Gary, Anthony and myself are fakes.

Could you be a little more specific in the differences in the hallmark. I just compared the mm on the one from Anthony with the one I posted and I realy can't find differences between them but then again the pics aren't realy that good.

Is there anyone who is able to do a side by side comparison between a good and bad maker mark?

KR
Philippe

[IVAN]

Originally posted by Philippe DB
Hi Ivan,

Still breaking my head over this one.

If you say that this is the only acceptable crimping technique then all the badges shown here by Gary, Anthony and myself are fakes.

Could you be a little more specific in the differences in the hallmark. I just compared the mm on the one from Anthony with the one I posted and I realy can't find differences between them but then again the pics aren't realy that good.

Is there anyone who is able to do a side by side comparison between a good and bad maker mark?

KR
Philippe

dear Philippe, techniques for crimping the catch in AWS 1942 was differents in base to the period of construction of them in this firm. mine is a later war type, Frank's is an early type.

in the hallmark is important to look the "1" - "9" and "4" , every number has a particularity. I show you mine so you can compare it.

dimentions in the PAB or IAB badges are not so very important, for me, too much differences ( but always in mm), but this is only my modest opinion.

regards

Ivan

[Philippe DB]

Hi Ivan,

Thanks realy appreciate you efforts in trying to educate me on these PAB's. Think I'm beginning to see things but I'm still not sure.

By the way what is your opinion on the badge posted by Gary.

KR
Philippe

[IVAN]

to be honest, I agree with you. I would have in my collection only crimped type.

made PAB is not very difficult - fakers proved - and they have done many years ago some good pieces ( for example AH and Frank & Reif ) and now they have take the right "colour" .
After seen around for many years they come almost "original"for many dealers and Often you can see these pieces in their table in every show and for sale in some dealers by internet too.

Have taken these pieces the same way?

Mike P. in his site is very clear too about these PABs.

In Gary's piece the other letters are wrong, too much for me.

Ivan

[Philippe DB]

Thanks Ivan

KR
Philippe

[Chet Sowersby]

OK guys, my eyes are getting blurry looking at the pics. I see what Ivan says about the numbers and letters. I think I understand the crimping aspect also. Anthony mentioned the swaz. I've yet to hear what this is about. My take on it is this: the lower arm of the swaz should be a bit "beveled" as well as the outside conor of the left hand arm of the swaz. Anthony, is this your understading of orginal as opposed to fake?

Best wishes, Chet

[Anthony]

Dear All,

To sum it all up I think that the catches on these badges should be crimped in, some of the early ones have different ways to also hold the catch in place after the crimping or as well as the crimping.

The pin and pinblock should always be the same, it fits in the recess made for it when the badge was made. The swaz should be like Chet has said in his comment, when you look at one of these badges an original does stand out the way it is made, nice shearing on the sides, there are also some aspects of the Eagle and the finish on the badge, always important, mine still has most of the Silver wash on it.

The points that Ivan has mentioned are valid to, the pebbling on the oak leaves and beside them is very well detailed also. there are some other points that I prefer not to say which I see on some of them.

Regards,

Anthony