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**Luft62** · 06-21-2003, 09:41 AM

I used to have a flat backed Silver PAB but very little of the finish remained. It was unmarked and the hinge and clasp were the same as the ones shown in this thread.
It was given to me by the guy who received it during the war and there is absolutely no reason for me to believe that it was a fake.
I am going through my old photos as I had photographed it front and back for insurance purposes (it was stolen shortly after!) and will scan them and post them. I believe that there is nothing wrong with these. As for file marks - these badges were often given a going over with a file prior to receiving their colour wash and I don't see what anyone could have against a few file marks on a badge.

**Chris Taylor** · 07-07-2003, 04:58 PM

Bringing this back to the top as I just started another thread to try & ID my unmarked Bronze PAB just like the ones in this thread.

I picked it up from Detlev a while back & really don't have any reason to doubt it's authenticity.

Luft62- Would love to see photos of yours too.

Attached Files

panzer001.jpg (60.1 KB, 217 views)

**Chris Taylor** · 07-07-2003, 04:59 PM

The back on this one is identical to Brian's above...

Attached Files

panzer.jpg (35.7 KB, 213 views)

**merdock** · 07-07-2003, 06:07 PM

Hi,
The badges from Niemann ,Weitze and brian have the same near horizontal lines to the reverse and all have been bought comparativly recently? They could be fake.
Merdock

**Mike Pinkus** · 07-08-2003, 08:47 AM

hello
i have been following this thread with interest.
my feeling on the badges prented here (besides the FLL marked pieces) is they are in a very gray area.
I do not like the metal used in some of them based on the pics...it doesnt seem like it is zinc. If they are made out of zinc then the likelihood of them being legit rises imo.
The point of the FLL badges is that these are the only known "totally" (agreed FO badges appear flat but are not....key point here there is a slight "dish" to the reverse) flat back PABs....This does not mean other flat back PABs do not exist but i would say that one should only tread in this direction if one is sure they want the piece and realize that it may be a tough sell down the road....remember for every rule there is an exception, but explaining that exception is often more a pain in the butt than it is worth.
mike

http://tankbadges.homestead.com

**hcliffe** · 07-08-2003, 12:10 PM

It would be interesting to hear Mr. Niemann's perspective on flat backed PAB's.

**John T** · 07-19-2003, 03:49 PM

another flat back found

Hey fellows:

I just picked this flat back one up at a show...it is not the same one that I posted to start the thread....as you recall the fellow who sold me the first one swore it came from a vet...I have not reason to doubt him, but who knows...anyway...this came from a dealer at a show...I questioned him about the controversy surrounding flat backed pieces and he said he had showed the piece to other collectors and dealers and the opinions were split.

Anyway...did we reach an consensus regarding these flat backed pieces? I will post pix of the one I just got...I bought it and took a chance..even though I know there is some controversy, John

Attached Files

mvc-564s.jpg (37.0 KB, 155 views)

**John T** · 07-19-2003, 03:51 PM

The back has rough finishing as does the first one I posted..this piece does have areas where the finish looks to have been sucked into the base metal...and I do not see any signs of artificial ageing...ie chemical residue....John

Attached Files

mvc-563s.jpg (36.3 KB, 152 views)

**John T** · 07-19-2003, 03:53 PM

reverse view...somewhere I have a flat back piece with a tiny area scopped out, smaller than a dime and round...the eagles head looks like a blob..that piece was vet bought by my friend, if I can find where I put it, I will post pix, John

Attached Files

mvc-562s.jpg (37.2 KB, 150 views)

**John T** · 07-19-2003, 03:54 PM

Front view...this piece retains about 15 percent of the finish, John

Attached Files

mvc-561s.jpg (37.2 KB, 150 views)

**MartyC** · 07-20-2003, 10:04 PM

Falt back

Into the fire...I have a bronze flat back PAB that I bought from Detlev about 4 months ago that is just like John's. I think it is good considering the source.

**MartyC** · 07-21-2003, 04:01 PM

flat back PAB

Here is a picture of the back of my bronze PAB that I purchased from Detlev about 3 months ago. Fake?? Detlev-say it ain't so!!!

Marty

**Joseph D'Errico** · 07-21-2003, 04:18 PM

Hi Marty,

That one looks like the one I own, what type of metal is it. Mine has what one might expect to see on a zinc piece , BUT the metal itself is heavy, not tomback something else like steel, but not steel.

Best,
JD

**John T** · 07-21-2003, 05:46 PM

Hi Marty...I have looked at the picture of the back of your piece and it looks just like the back of my piece...down to the light file marks even....so if yours is good so is mines, if yours is bad so is mine, John

**MartyC** · 07-21-2003, 06:53 PM

John

John,
They look the same to me also. As far as the material, I would be guessing because I am not knowledgeable about metal. I do know it seems extremely strong, high quality and makes the badge very heavy. The strikes across the back and the sides indicate this was stamped and if this is fake they must have spent an awful lot of money for a press!!
I bought this from Detlev's site about 3 or 4 months back and I always consider him (like all of us) impeccable when it comes to authenticity. I only wish he could see this thread and comment on this issue.
Concerning the idea that all flat back PAB except FLL are phoney, I think one has to wonder if that was the case, why didn't that principal apply to iron crosses (1st class), gold and silver wound badges, war merit crosses (1st class), etc. I am a reenactor as well as a collector and I can tell you there really is no advantage to wearing a vaulted or hollowback badge on a tunic.
In any event, I will be really disappointed if this badge proves to be fake.
Marty

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