Original Flat Back Zinc Panzer Assault Badge

[johnrtse]

Bill, I don't think your clasp has been replaced. I just bought my very first PAB (from Bill Shea-I just got it today!) and it is an FLL 43 solid-back, Silver also. Mine is very slightly vaulted, possibly by hand (???).

The obverse is virtually identical, with AMAZING grass detail. The reverse is identical- our badges could be twins!. Your catch is in EXACTLY the same position, and identical in configuration, to mine. The soldering around the catch is the exact same patina as the rest of the badge.

I have some pictures to post, but my cable service is down right now- I'm posting now from my wifes' WebTV unit.

I'll put some pics up tomorrow.


John

[Anthony]

Hi Guys,

The two unmarked badges in this thread are NOT FLL badges, check the right road wheels with the examples posted by Bill Garvy, they are different.

Regards,

Anthony

[Matteo]

Hello all,

aren't the details on the obverse of these two flat badges very similar to those of PABs by fo? (especially the grass area looks similar)
It is the first time that I see this kind of flat PABs but details, hinge, catch look good to me... the odd thing is the flatness
It may be interesting to know what metal John's badge is made of, is it zinc or something else?

Cheers,
Matteo

[johnrtse]

Here are the picts of the FLL I got from Bill Shea yesterday.

John

[Greg]

Uh oh ...

This one that I just got the other day looks very much like the one Brian posted. Mine shown here has several characteristics that I don't like:
1. It's completely flat backed.
2. The bottoms of both wings and the top of the gun tube have small vertical cuts, like they were filed in with a very small file, almost like they were intended to increase the definition of the feather tips. Don't know what the cut across the gun tube was supposed to do. I've never seen anything like this on a PAB before. Shows up on the photos of the back and the hinge.
3. It's very heavy (40 g). It is zinc and solid, so it would be heavy, but I think it's the heaviest PAB I've measured.
4. The outside wreath and eagle edges have remnants of die shear marks, but the inside edges of all design cut-outs are smooth. I haven't seen any of the new "laser cut" fakes, but these edges are much smoother than normal PAB inside edges.

Now an aspect that adds to the problem - I got this from one of our favorite dealers whose initials are D.N! He said he is convinced it's original, he's seen several like it, but of course I can return it if I'm not happy. And that's what I plan to do.

Greg

[Greg]

The back. Look at the bottoms of both wings.

[Greg]

The hinge. Again, see lines cut into the bottoms of the wings, and across the gun tube.

[Greg]

The catch

[Brian C.]

Here is a better view of the front and back of mine. So the count is two bronze from Detlev like this and one silver possibly from a vet? Maybe Mike Pinkus can weigh in on these.

[John T]

pock marks or not

I am closely examining my piece's reverse as it was stated that it had pock marks. These are marks caused by a casting process and I guess you can call them pits also.... I am now convinced that what looks like pock marks in the photograph is actually a bubbing of the heavy silvered finish as present on the reverse, as these are not pits, but rather raised areas of the silver plate finish. (I am not sure if actual silver is used to plate the piece, I am just referring to the color)... also, there are about 14 spots on the reverse that actually look like scratches and/or indentions where the reverse of the piece was hit a number of times before plating by some object(s)..these are not pock marks or pits...but hits... I will post some more pictures...you really have to hold the piece in hand..then to add to the confusion, on the upper left side of the reverse, there is an area what appears to be peeled plating, that has been then replated when the piece was plated finally. The reverse of my piece makes an interesting study, but at any rate is not as nice as the reverses of the other two pieces.

My piece does not have the cut-outs under the eagle's wings as shown on Greg's piece.

My piece also has an area on the reverse where it appears a file was used...actually two areas, one under the hinge, and one towards the lower center...I can not tell if this was done before or after plating.

John

[chevelle]

f.o.

The badges posted by militarybuyer and Brian C. are not the same IMO. Brian's is very much like a f.o. marked badge. The back cutouts are almost the same. The f.o. here is only a little dished, a US dime will not slide past a straightedge held to the back, but I can see the dishing.

[Brian C.]

Here is another like the ones pictured in this thread from Helmut Weitze's site:

https://www.weitze.net/cgi-bin/cat-a...8&lang=e&kat=1

[Brian C.]

back

[TobyR]

And while we're on the subject of flatback PAB's I'd like to throw mine into the equation. It has been discussed - some positive thoughts (strong detail) but mostly negative because of the flatback. The obverse looks very similar to John's example posted at the start of this thread.

As you can see there are elements of the bronze finish remaining to the obverse. There are also two noticeable areas of 'seepage', between the eagle's right wing and the swastika and also between the left side body of the tank and the turret (previously spotted by Philippe).

There are no casting marks / indicators to the reverse. The pin has an area of corrosion to the central portion on its topside (perhaps from rubbing against a wet tunic), the underside of the pin retains much of its bronze finish. The badge has strong shear marks. It weights 37g.

It is, however, absolutely flat.

Anyway, as I said this has been discussed before, but I thought it might be helpful to post it again in this thread.

All the best,
Toby.

[TobyR]

And the reverse:

By the way, this was acquired in a lot of items, all stitched into an old flat box (the sort used for a Fish Serving Fork and Knife). All of which, according to 'legend' was acquired and subsequently put together in the box, by a vet.

Make of it what you will. The badge is presently languishing in my fake box.