Too much ADO on "marked" badges!

[martin]

All that glitters...

Guilty!

I have to confess that until recently I was one of those daft folks with a 'does it have a maker mark' obsession and with hindsight so many excellent opportunities to buy unmarked badges have slipped away.

Being relatively new to the game marked badges provided a very dangerous false sense of security in that I was convinced that they had to be original as they were marked. Oops!

Thankfully I realised a while back not only that unmarked badges were just as if not more attractive than marked badges but that all badges, marked or not, require an equally rigorous scrutiny to determine originality.

I have this forum to thank for bringing me to my senses.

Great thread!

[skip]

Interesting thread,

I am one of those people that collect only maker marked badges.´The only unmarked I have is a "buntmetal" Aux. Cruiser and I would have given that away if I had been quick enough to grab the Junckers marked piece that John sold not so long ago on the EStand ( that was a beut).
Why do I only collect the marked ones?
Well as some people have already stated it is easy to find providence for a marked piece. The other reason is that I like to collect a maker series, for instance I have a PAB, GAB, IAB, UBoot, Luft Flak and Navy Flak all from ÜÜ (Wernstein). That is I like to get as many different badges from one maker as possible.
With unmarked badges this does,nt go as you never know who manufactured them. The only case I can think of were this is maybe possible is Forster+Barth (the ones Frank likes) and that is only because they used their very distinctive pin.
That is just my opinion on the subject, there are some nice unmarked badges out there but to quote a saying
"not for my collection".

Skip

[W. C. Stump]

Skip wrote: "With unmarked badges this does,nt go as you never know who manufactured them."

I tend to disagree. One good example is the Junker marked and unmarked Auxiliary Cruiser Badges. (I was the lucky one who got John's Junker marked E-stand badge) I have a lovely unmarked Junker that has the same die strike characteristics as the marked one. The same goes for the unmarked and marked Schwerin badges. The die characteristics are the same. My unmarked Schwerin came from a German warrior from the Auxiliary Cruiser ORION and my marked example are a twin to the unmarked save the markings.

[Chrvip68]

Hi,

I prefer the maker marked awards and medals, but this doesn't mean that i don't have unmarked badges in my collection, i have several unmarked and i'll continue to collect unmarked awards, but most of them are maker marked.
Maker marked awards helping me with the research and they prevent me for collect fakes besides also the marked badge help us to indentify the maker of the unmarked badge.

[Jody]

Un-marked Awards

Hi folks,
I feel too much has been given to maker marked awards. In my opinion, if you know what you are looking at a maker mark should not matter.

I think the best made Luftwaffe flak badge is the early silver example with ball hinge. It is not maker marked, yet guys would pass one up for a Brehmer or a Juncker, and I don't feel they are as nice-just an opinion.

For example, I don't own an eagle spange with a maker mark. It does not matter to me.

Here is a cased badge from my collection, I got when I was 12 years old, I am 38 now so you do the math. It is not maker marked , but many have offered hallmarked Juncker examples for it. It is one of my favorite Luftwaffe awards.
Best Regards,
Jody

[Jody]

Glider Pilot Un-Hallmarked

Hi folks here is it's reverse. I think it is a Juncker? Any opinions on who might of made it?
Jody

[Jody]

Glider Pilot Case

Here is the case and it has the cardboard flocked interior. Sorry for the small images, I will try to get better ones this summer.
Jody

[W. C. Stump]

JUNKER GLIDER MARKED

Here is an early Junker marked Luftwaffe Glider badge to compare with.

[W. C. Stump]

REVERSE

Reverse.

[Chet Sowersby]

I have a few more badges with makers marks than not. However, the un-marked ones are the challenge! It gives great satisfaction to determine the maker by their common characteristics when compared to ones with makers marks. Without the forum it would be pretty much imposible to do. I just bought a unmarked Junckers GAB from Lorenzo. It was not marked, but the hinge and catch were what you would expect from that firm. Also, the quality of the badge was typical Juncker (outstanding). The finish of this GAB is pretty much gone by now. I didn't buy it for the finish but for its manafacture. Reguardless, of makers mark or finish this badge is special. Thanks again Lorenzo!

[Robert P.]

Yes, Ken, ALL badges do have their maker's mark=die characteristics. I definately agree with you on this. For example, Juncker incorporated in his design subtle little personal 'signature' features that only a well- educated collector would know are there. If one of their badges, say a Juncker 2nd pattern pilot, lacked it's subtle feature, I would feel very uncomfortable buying it. There are so many other examples such as this. There is a PAB that has been called the 'Daisy' badge. Under the tread of the tank are two daisy flowers. Mike Pinkus educated me on this feature. Every example of this 'Daisy' badge that I have ever seen has been unmarked. I don't know if any one has ever identified it's maker. I find the study of these little 'signatures' most interesting AND more rewarding than a simple maker mark. Maker marks are iceing on the cake to me. Makes the badge sort of 'fully-dressed'. All of my pieces (99% Luft. flight badges) are fully dressed. But this is just my method of collecting.

Robert

Congrats to the fella who just got the J2 on CB's site. I'm sure he had dozens of e-mails on this one.

[Bruce Simcox]

Marked or unmarked?

That is an interesting point to bring up for discussion and opinion. Personally I like both. There are some really ugly marked badges and some really ugly unmarked ones as well.....but of course that's my opinion.

The ones I find to be the most challenging are the stamped badges. Most of these are unmarked, but when comparisons are made using period photography or good provenance, one can still be pretty certain regarding authenticity. My favorite IAB is unmarked, slightly hollowed buntmetall.....but to me it is as appealing as a nicely marked JFS, of which I do possess a bronze example. Also I expect to eventually locate and purchase a bronze 'twin' to the unmarked buntmetall and perhaps also one with more of the finish remaining.

But what I am really saying here is that it is the particular badge itself, and how it appeals to me, that has made me seek a certain type. If the buntmetall were a marked badge I would feel the same. So, it doesn't matter whether a badge is marked or no.....it's whether I like it or not.

My favorite badge is a standard, zink, stamped GAB w/90% of it's finish remaining.....and in my eyes it's a beaut.

So for me, badges are a lot like women.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

-------------------------

Bruce

[Tiger 1]

Unmarked Pilot's Badge

Rich,

When I saw the picture of your P/O badge a certain familiarity sparked in my mind. I had to go to the safe and retrieve my favorite Pilot's Badge to check if my memory still serves me well. No Alzheimers yet!

My unmarked pilot's badge is by the same unknown maker as your P/O. The details match perfectly at the various points of reference between the two. You are correct in stating that you haven't seen a better quality badge for detail and strike. The GWLs are very nice but I believe these unmarked ones like you posted are tops. The early thin Junkers are very nice also but just not as stunning overall.

Can you post a picture of the reverse of your badge? I would like to compare the backs of our two badges. Mine has a small laid down hinge with a thin pin and round wire catch that is soldered or brazed directly to the wreath without a foot or base. The rivets holding the eagle to the wreath are nicely finished and low domed.

Just to make this post relevant to the thread. I'm of the same opinion with some of the other guys here who posted that some of the unmarked badges and decorations are indeed the original issue or presentation pieces. Many times the quality of the unmarked pieces is a bit better that the marked examples.

just some further thoughts.

Thanks for showing yor excellent example of a P/O.

[Rich G]

Here you go. While it has superb finish, it is let down slightly by the riveting.

Rich

[Joseph D'Errico]

Hello Gentleman,

I wish they were all unmarked to the price point would be more stable.

I like both and I collect both as a collector that is, in reference to selling well, I have to go with the maker marked stuff because it provides a better selling foundation, that is business I guess.

But I have a few unmarked examples and I think they are very nice pieces, such as the unmarked Pilot badge ( thought to be connected to GWL so how) and that piece is a fine example, better than some of the maker marked examples as well as an early P/O another nice piece that most collectors turn thier noses up at.

My focus is very specific to LW Pilots badges , P/O and Observers so collecting the series is what ginda makes it fun as well. Getting all the examples from the various makers . Same sort of thing as collecting anything that their is a series of.

Cordially Yours,
JD