Too much ADO on "marked" badges!

[Lorenzo Brown]

I think there is a lot of attention devoted to wondering "who made this badge?"

In my opinion...AND in my collection...some of the unmarked badges are much superior to the marked ones.

Does identifying a maker automatically make a badge more desirable?
Did the recipient care who made the badge?

Some of my favorite, and best badges are unmarked. What's the big infatuation with "makers"? A "rose" by any other name is still a rose, and an authentic, high quality badge is still an authentic, high quality badge...SO...

WHAZZUP with that? Just curious.

OPINIONS wanted!

[mads]

Well, many of my badges are unmarked and I think they are beautifull.
For me it is just a matter of curiousity, to be able to find out the maker is just an exstra something to the "high" of owning the badge.
As long as a bagde is in good condition and Original (ofcourse) I am very happy with it.
Should start a thread called "beautifull unmarked badges" or something, that would be interesting to see don`t you think?

Mads

[W. C. Stump]

MARKED OR UNMARKED

"Who Made this badge" has been asked for as long as I have been collecting. The badge with a hallmark always seems to sell first. I was even indoctrinated to that philosophy for most of my collecting years. Not until I began to do serious research and start collecting medal and document grouping did I realize that the unmarked badges were in most cases badges supplied direct from the manufacture on a government contract. Most of the marked badges were sold in their retail stores, especially when the LDO numbering system came into wide use. I have acquired many Kreigsmaring badges and their award certificates direct from the recipient or their family. Most of the badges were unmarked or had just the LDO number stamped on the reverse. Many firms simply stamped their assigned manufacturers number rather than their full name. This was due to many medals and badges didn't have room for a full name and address to be placed on their badge. (EK 2nd, RK's, West Wall Medals, etc.) After much study it is possible to tell who made a badge by its die characteristics.

[Philippe DB]

[QUOTE][QUOTE]What's the big infatuation with "makersHi Guys,

I absolutely agree with the fact that a lot of the best made and most beautifull badges are unmarked ones. For me one off the best examples there of are for instance some unmarked Buntmettall PAB's that are realy little works of art.

However there is in this hobby one very good reason to focus on Marked badges and that is a direct result of every one of us trying to defend themselfs against the plague of fakes.

If the badge you buy has the correct maker mark then there exist a real bench market. As a collector you are able to compare your badge to other badges of the same type that carry the exact same maker mark and establish beyond doubt that your badge is authentic. This makes it on the one hand much more easy to find peace of mind with your purchase and on the other hand gives you the guarantee that in case you want to sell it the buyer will feel more confident to purchase it. I think this is the only reason why we are prepared to pay premiums up to 100% for a maker marked badge.

A classic example off this way we all think for me is the Heer Flak Badge. Everybody agrees that this badge is much rarer than luft or navy flakbadges but with the exception of the buntmetall Juncker marked example (recently sold for €1350 after the another offered at €1000 a week earlier by the same dealer sold in minutes). The prices of these badges stay low because most of what is offered is unmarked and so it always will be difficult to convince yourself that the badge is ok but even more difficult to convince potential buyers.

By now you probably all know my own unmarked Heer flakbadge that was posted on several occasion on this forum. Altough I felt confident with it I never got 100% certainty from all the reaction on the badge that it was ok. However with its magnificent detail and it's unique pin its probably very rare. The fact that I couldn't find an other one exactly like it kept gnawing at me. So I decided to send a series of detailed pics to one of the most respected dealers and asked him for his professional opinion. He was kind enough to send me a reply in wich he confirmed the badge's authenticity. Even with that in mind I still have difficulty to find peace of mind just because I never have seen an other badge that perfectly matches mine.

So to make a long story short in this difficult hobby of ours we all are probably looking for peace of mind in relation to our collection. And that is much easier to find if you can compare your own badge to dozens of others generaly accepted as original and a perfect match to the one you just spend your money on.

KR
Philippe

[Kai-Steffen M.]

Did the recipient care who made the badge?

Im pretty sure they didnt. all of you military guys: did you ever have a look at the back of you badges and stuff to find out who made it? no? me neither- but i will do that right now ...
...
...
...
...
they are marked:

Kalka, Augsburg
Zinn GmbH, Heuchelheim and
M. Kissing, Menden



Gruß,
KSM

[pchwastiak]

I think collectors like to see a makers mark because it is a helpfull tool in authenticating a badge. If the badge is marked you can easily get information on what the badge should look like.
With the unmarked badge you have to do a little more research.
However I do agree a lot of people put too much into the makers mark ie Shwerin U-boat badges, I have seen a makers mark add $100 to the price of the badge.

Peter C

[Matteo]

Hi guys,

interesting thread.
Actually I always prefer if a badge is traced back to a certain firm, mainly for two reasons.
The first, but maybe the less important of the two, is that it is easier to compare and so determine the originality of the badge. But this is only a help, not the key point to determine the authenticity, because of this I say it's not the most important reason.
The second reason is that knowing the firm that produced the badge gives a little more appeal to the badge, regardless of the beauty of the piece.
Just to make a comparison, imagine to have a car without a trademark, and imagine that it could be attributed in some way to, for instance, Porsche , wouldn't be more appealing knowing that the firm who produced it is one of the most prestigious or also one that produced less number of cars? Talking about badges, to me obviously, knowing a Knight's cross or a flak badge is made by Juncker, or a tank badge is made by EWE adds to that badge a little more appeal.

Cheers,
Matteo

[Rich G]

I agree, Lorenzo. My unmarked P/O badge is the nicest P/O badge I have ever seen, bar the GWL.

The finish is just superb, the details crisp... so what if it's unmarked... I know it's original and it actually adds a little bit of mystery! I'm always trying to work out who the maker might have been !

Rich

[Allan P.]

I agree with Lorenzo too.

Too much importance is placed on makers marks.

I think the fakers have cashed in on makers marks too.

Alot of young collectors are more interested in the makers than originality.

Allan

[François SAEZ]

Most (if not all) of the fakes are maker marked - why? Simply because people are more confident in marked badges - a mistake IMO

[James Clark]

Even if a badge or medal is unmarked it seems to me that you've got a fair chance of finding out the maker if you do a bit of reasearch.

Personally, I think it's interesting to know who made an award, but I wouldn't put much of a premium on it. As long as people accept/decide that this maker or that made the "best" EK, Wound Badge or whatever then sellers will (understandably) continue to ask more for these particular pieces. I have some personal preferences but generally speaking if I find an award I want and it's authentic and in good condition, I'll have it.

[Rich G]

The classic unmarked P/O... a part from GWL I haven't seen a nicer P/O!

Rich

[TobyR]

Hi Everybody,

I agree wholeheartedly with the mood of this thread. There are parallels with the whole designer clothes obsession, wherein just because something has a label and costs some obscene amount of money, it isn't necessarily of any better quality than something from Marks & Spencer Department Store or elsewhere. In spite of this, many people are still more than happy to splash out on a bit of body-advertising, in belief that they have obtained a superior product.

I have a Pilot's Badge by the 'unknown' maker and this is a real beauty but no maker, as such for many it will never have the same appeal as a Juncker marked example. But that's there loss.

Personally, when I try and work out who the maker is, this is for my benefit, since it is for me a valuable learning experience. It helps me to become familiar with the traits of the different manufacturers.

Anyway, just my two-penneth.

All the best,
Toby.

[Bryan Poon]

Hi All

I learned something from this thread. Thanks all

Cheers
BP

[kennethc]

Actually, an original unmarked badge is actually marked
=> It's die characteristic.

ken