Carl Wild CCC?

[Jeff S]

Did Carl Wild make CCC's? I ended up with a packet marked as such that came with a good RS silver CCC.

I can take a photo if needed, but wanted to see if they even produced them at all. (I know there is another part of the forum for packets/boxes but frequent this one. I'll head there next if need be.)

Thanks!

[Don D.]

I've never heard of nor seen a CCC by CW but I haven't seen it all either. I'm sure the packet boys would like to see the packet. If it is genuine then why else would it exist if not for a CW CCC?

[Jeff S]

My thoughts exactly. I'm moving tomorrow and all my toys are packed up(scary!) I'll have to wait to get some shots of it. I had forgotten about it actually, until packing my stuff up last night.

My friend picked up the CCC and packet in Germany, bootsale type thing. The RS CCC got thumbs up at the SOS show this year, so I'm happy there. The packet didn't cost anything, the original seller said he got them together, so he was letting them go together. I don't really have anything invested in the packet, makes me feel better either way knowing.

I was just curious since I couldn't remember seeing a Wild CCC.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Jeff,

I too would be interested in seeing the CCC with the packet. A few points:

1. I don't recall ever seeing any other CCC come in a packet, they are usually found in a cardboard box or celephane wrapper.

2. Souval definately made fakes of their CCC after the war, apparently utilizing the same die as the wartime CCCs, albeit with much less detail from the worn out die.

On the opposite side, most of the unmarked CCCs shared the same obverse design and die as the RS marked Clasps, so we know there was some level of tool sharing between different makers.

Pics of both would help out a lot here, so please post some pics when you get settled in to your new place.

Tom D.

[Frank Heukemes]

A German researcher friend of mine was able to talk to the last owner and a worker of Carl Wild only recently. It was specifically inquired which badges/awards CW made during the war. Reportedly, the CCC was not among the few awards CW made.

[Jeff S]

The big part of my move is over. I can't find my camera, so I used my scanner. Moving sucks.

Here is the RS CCC

[Jeff S]

And back...colour sucks, sorry, scanner...

[Jeff S]

bag front

[Jeff S]

bag back

[Giel VW]

imo the package is not good, it has the same print as some other fake CW packages. I'm looking for one, I will post it later.

[MH184]

Hi Jeff,


Let me guess you've bought this in the last two years, if not the last 6 months to a year.

I'd term this one of the new breed fakes, only yesterday I was looking at a Carl Wild GAB fake packet. I say new breed, I think we are only begining to notice them and they've been out there for some unknown duration and they are spreading.

Right, on these the silver classification and maker mark look good, that is to say an excellent copy of the original text on other award packets.

The desigantion for the CCC, thats another story, the a and e's for a start are incorrect for any CW packet desigantion text to my knowledge of this form (and they are trying to emulate a form that is used, not other). These CW packets they made do tend to be different in guise, packet and text styles to the norm in most instances. For arguments sake, some of their KVK, Ost and IAB packets to what we would commonly associate with generic sorts.

I have a paticular interest in these for some reason.

The packet style, it's close, even the fold at the bottom has near on 60 degree cuts than a more normal (not all....more than most, grey area and to an extent fake specific) fake 70 degree cut.

The packet flap looks hand cut and the corners on the flap an effort via scissors/razor blade to cut rounded ends, note the rough faceted cut.

In my opinion and observation the ones I've encountered and own are not rounded at these ends (the side angles vary, one will mostly be off to the other which side depends on the person being left or right handed, but the flap is normally 70 degrees one side and the other a tad more (impossible as fakes can be exactly the same there) this applies to this specific packet type only ! I'm not an expert, this is just my opinion and should not be taken as gospel.

The cut off stubbed flap would be a correct style for one of their packets they used.

Overall a good effort. We have this 'sparkle' paper again, we have this on the TDB packets too. I don't like it at all this type of paper to be honest.

There is a wave of new fake out there, they are very good, in a couple of years I won't be able to tell from a pic, or maybe even in hand.

Be on the look out for a large GAB CW fake packet and orange IAB packet, the orange one is a copy of a genuine sorts, it takes the form as above.


Kr


Marcus

[MH184]

Giel,

Only in the designation, this they've 'invented' , the mm and silver they've just copied.


Although on the 'h', they've got the concept of the curl and bend in it, the 'e' is the biggest give away and the 'a'. It's all wrong anyway, but this is just a guide.

Remember those compared to a good one and you can't go wrong.........for now. The silvers e is correct as I say.

Makers name, perfect !! These guys CW appear to have their mm in the middle of the packet 99.9% of the time (careful as some packets are folded incorrectly and thus look odd), mm's in the middle of the packet is a fundamental guide to dubious packets, you get a latter war Deumer wound badge packet etc with this trait, so it's not all fakes of course (always combinations of things).....as I say just keep the odd thing in mind keep it simple and touch wood !

[Giel VW]

Cheers mate

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

Jeff, although the packet is bad, the CCC looks like an original Rudolf Souval CCC. From this angle, the eagle's face looks very odd, can you take a more closeup shot of the eagle straight on and then a very closeup shot top left oakleaf in the central motif?

Thanks

Tom D.

[Jeff S]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I thought as well about the packet, mainly because I didn't think CW made a CCC. But it was worth asking. Marcus, that is so strange, they would go to the trouble to make a well done maker marked packet for an award the maker never made! I appreciate your taking a peek at it, and all the research you have done on the subject.

Tom, I'll try to get a better photo, when I find my camera that is. I really didn't have any concerns about the clasp itself but its always nice to hear positives. I know the shots look odd because of how it was sitting angled on the scanner, not perfectly flat.

I'm still happy, paying under $200 for the clasp, with the packet thrown in to boot, how couldn't I be?