New Super Fake or Original with secondary pin

[skip]

Quiet possibly he thinks its a fake himself.
The cutout could well be original to the badge. The replaced pin would also fit.

Skip

[robert60446]

The cutout could well be original to the badge. The replaced pin would also fit.

Fit in what Skip? I don't see any reason to replace pin because of the cut out...

[skip]

Robert,

Because the cutout badges are all seem to be heavily used badges.

The pin on the Porsche is not the most durable. They obviously broke with use.

Skip

[robert60446]

Robert,

Because the cutout badges are all seem to be heavily used badges.

The pin on the Porsche is not the most durable. They obviously broke with use.

Skip

Now I got it!...

[MH184]

Learning here:

But are cut-outs normally this roughly finished ? All that trouble and it's not filed to my mind to a finiished expectation ? However, there are file marks on the reverse so a file has been used at some stage.

It just looks too rough ! Not that granted this would be a sole sign of post war cut-out attempt. Just thinking out aloud.


Kr

Marcus

[skip]

It could have been cutout at any time mate. No way to prove that now one way or the other.
Rough cutouts are not unusual though. We assume they were done in the field workshops by different people. Every one is unique in its own right.

Skip

[John T]

It could have been cutout at any time mate. No way to prove that now one way or the other.
Rough cutouts are not unusual though. We assume they were done in the field workshops by different people. Every one is unique in its own right.

Skip

So there is really no way to prove when a cut-out was done and we will be seeing more with increased values? An uncomforting thought.

[skip]

Which is why you should******180;nt pay more than the badge alone is worth.

This happened back in the 80s. In those days AG/ROs without bolts cost about 1/3 more than with. Losts of clever people had the idea to remove the bolts and sell the badges with profit, as you know, there are authentic buntmetal AG/ROs with officially removed bolts.

This situation seems to have solved itself. Nowadays the "removed" type retail about the same as the ones with bolts.

Skip

[entasis]

cut-outs

For a period "grass cut-out"; wouldn't you expect a similar patina (and signs of wear) on the cutout area as in the obverse and reverse of the badge? Conversely, if you freshly cut a period badge, wouldn't the inner metal's nature be reflected?? and possibly be more difficult to artificially wear only that area considering the rest of the badge shows its true age?

Similar concept applies with wood antiques and when you marry or restore portions of the item.

Am I making any sense or should I just go back to work? :-))

Tony

[skip]

No Tony,

that is perfectly correct. A new cutout would show shiny metal on the cutouts. Of course, there are ways to camouflage that.

Skip

[Bob Hritz]

Are you saying cutouts are factory done? I would have to disagree with that. I had a number of cutout tank badges, years ago, and each was differently done. One example left the rocks and partial grass and others were fully cut out.

As far as I am concerned, the cutout badges are worth less than a mint badge. Why would someone hurt the value of a badge by cutting out the maker's design? This was a personal preference.

Somewhere, I should still have a PAB made from the insignia of the Panzer Marksmanship lanyard. I will try to find it.

Bob Hritz

[skip]

Are you saying cutouts are factory done?
Bob Hritz

eh! Bob,

I can´t find anywere were anybody has said that in this thread.
We are all agreed that the are privatly modified.

Skip

[robert60446]

Which is why you should´nt pay more than the badge alone is worth.

Amen!

[John T]

From this point on (unless these cut-out are lets say 5 or 6 hundred dollars and more and I have not priced these lately so I do not know) we will not see fakers destroying untampered with buntmetal badges to make "cut-outs" but you probably will see the problem a little bit with the cheaper hollowback zincers to double their values. And, I agree with Skip, the patina is no problem and can be done artificially on the cut-out areas. Also, you will probably see cut-outs of out and out fake hollowbacks as the fakers try to offer more "variety" to the market.

The collector must always be on his guard.

John

[robert60446]

we will not see fakers destroying untampered with buntmetal badges to make "cut-outs" but you probably will see the problem a little bit with the cheaper hollowback zincers to double their values.

Then again John, if people will refuse to pay more for the zinker with cut outs then "bad boys" will have no motivation to do this.