Zinc Daisy PAB with early IC pin

[DavidM]

Pages 124 & 125

[Frank Heukemes]

Exactly, Don. But nothing is black or white, it is always in the middle. It is incorrect to say EVERY maker made his hardware inhouse and it is also incorrect to say these were ALL bought from suppliers. Both is possible, and observation shows that many makers, I would dare to say the majority, indeed made their own setups, to be used exclusively by them.

The ads of setup suppliers ( I pictured one in the GAB book) show practically exclusively tinnie and non-war badge setups. Which is logical, because these ads are pre-war. With all the big manufactureres entering production with the beginning of the war and the subsequent years, we can only speculate if the same setup manufacturers supplied them or if the companies made their own setups. More important than any ad will always be the observation of as many variants and badges of all makers. If one does find a consistancy among all badges of maker A, without these EXACT same setups being found on badges of makers B-Z, one can be pretty
sure that maker A either made their own setups or was supplied by a setup manufacturer who supplied maker A on an exclusive basis (which does not make so much reason for the supplier, economically).

It has become the latest trend to scream "one cannot tell any makers by their setups" by some recently born specialists. Everybody nowadays wants to be famous for his own little theory and wow, he can prove it with a period ad. It was never and it will never be healthy to see things black or white. And the danger to make mistakes becomes even bigger when only one badge is studied extensively and when conclusions are drawn prematurely with knowledge gained from one badge transferred to the other badges. Some of that knowledge is indeed transferrable, but sadly things are not so easy that good, solid knowledge about one badge can be applied to all other TR badges.

And Greg, I was not talking about you. I was talking very generally.

[DavidM]

Pages 194 & 195

[Don D.]

Thanks Frank, we are of the same mind then. Sounds like a whole new series of threads to determine reverse setups by maker.

[Frank Heukemes]

...or like a series of books!

[greg.hays]

"It has become the latest trend to scream "one cannot tell any makers by their setups" by some recently born specialists. Everybody nowadays wants to be famous for his own little theory and wow, he can prove it with a period ad. It was never and it will never be healthy to see things black or white. And the danger to make mistakes becomes even bigger when only one badge is studied extensively and when conclusions are drawn prematurely with knowledge gained from one badge transferred to the other badges. Some of that knowledge is indeed transferrable, but sadly things are not so easy that good, solid knowledge about one badge can be applied to all other TR badges.

And Greg, I was not talking about you. I was talking very generally"

No worries Frank .

Here is something to ponder. Is it really that difficult to consider that makers did make their own hardware? Not all...and not always, but think about it. The materials were obviously there, the tools and the labor were readily available and it would probably make more econonical sense. Maybe not always on the same site but I'm sure firms had satellite offices.....why not? In this case the hardware on this Daisy is unique enough to consider that option I guess?

[Philippe DB]

Herzlichen Glückwunsch Harry, tolles Daisy Ich lag vor die Glotze und hab mir das Fussball angesehen und so das ende der auktion verpasst

Already broke my head over this but without being able to reach a conclusion because these EK's, DK's featuring these set-ups can't be linked to a maker either.

Don't know if this will be of any help, but like I wrote in the past, IMO based upon a bunch of groundug 2pat Daisies in zinc in the Lüdenscheid area I still think that we have to look for the maker in that area. Don't forget the Hymmen, with whom the Daisy maker shared its designer and hardware, also was situate in Lüdensheid, just like FCL (same designer)

KR
Philippe

[greg.hays]

Just to throw it out there.........there is a L/13 marked EKI Spange pictured in Gordon Williams book with the same hardware except the pin is flat stock rather then round. Junker, Meybauer and Godet all from Berlin right?

[skip]

Just to play Devils Advocate here, but are we totally sure that the hinge is original to the badge.
Are those black burn marks I see around the top? or is it patina?

Skip

[IR 529]

Herzlichen Glückwunsch Harry, tolles Daisy Ich lag vor die Glotze und hab mir das Fussball angesehen und so das ende der auktion verpasst

KR
Philippe

Hi Philippe,
I was on a birthdayparty, cant see both soccer games this evening and I had to bid far too early but sometimes it works


Hello skip,
IMO there is no doubt that the hinge is original to the badge, it´s patina. Could be that solder below the silverfinish is the reson that the most patina is especially in this area.

[Philippe DB]

Just to play Devils Advocate here, but are we totally sure that the hinge is original to the badge.
Are those black burn marks I see around the top? or is it patina?

Skip

Well Skip what do we get now? You told me you once saw another one just like it

I think the patina on the hardware is rather consistant with what we see on the finish, wouldn't you agree?

KR
Philippe

[Don D.]

What does this do to the evolution theory of production?

[skip]

I did say I would play Devils Advocate Phil

Anyway, I was just being invidious because I did´nt get it

I believe I did see a similar, or in fact this very one, a few years ago.
I´m suprised nobody else asked the same question I did though. Just accepted it at face value.

Who knows were this fits in Don!

Skip

[Frank Heukemes]

I´m suprised nobody else asked the same question I did though. Just accepted it at face value.

It is because we do not need a "Brille", my friend!

[MH184]

Brille whats that an 'eye glass' ?