Where else did GB use this same hardware? Can you proove they made it in house or bought from a sole source? What other maker do we hold to this standard for hardware?
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pseudo-expert -
Hi Don,Originally posted by ddoering
As far as I know no where else which makes it even more relevant in relation to this badge that was only in production for a fairly short periode of time compared to other of their badges. Apart from that it's also not difficult to imagine that it was made in far smaller numbers then lower ranking awards.
KR
PhilippeComment
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Dear Don,
It could be possible that more than one mold was used at the same time but there is no way the SCRATCHED acorns (scratched onto a badge and not into the mold) could be explained by that.Cheers, Frank
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In addition to the hardware differences, there is dimensional smallness and finishing differences.
Although Don's post is well written an awful lot of justification is needed to except any other variant than the type 1. It is this justification that leaves the fakers the wiggle room they need. We have just seen that the very latest badge( no rivet) is identical to the type 1. best wishes,
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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Philippe, then why is the hinge well oval in shape when they used your hinge instead? Just how long do you think they produced these? I'm sure it started long before they announced this award officially. How many might have been made? Perhaps each panzer division was issued a block of them. What would the demand have been at that time, projected? Just like the Gold ccc, I'm sure production far exceeded demand. Since we've seen documentation that awards were ordered in blocks of thousands and 10s of thousands I see no reason not to believe these were ordered in the same way.
Frank, are the truely scratched in individually or are they consistant across numerous badges. You can improve a die, especially one that isn't used to strike an image. All you do is fill in the portion of the die that you want to change and then scribe it out into its new form. These dies were used as a mold, not in the true sense of a die. But, I'm not trying to convince anyone either way. People that have made up thier mind will rarely change it. However, if you are going to be an expert on something you be familar with how they were made. Poor metal flow, especially into a small detailed area like an acorn will leave poor detailing. Metal goes from liquid to plasma as it cools and will leave the "dots" instead of the cross hatching.
On the otherside, these badges(fake or real) were produced using proper equipment or you would find the pitting from handcasting.
On a final note, if one cannot tell a fake when holding it in hand how is one going to do that by looking at pics? Someone who acts as an authority must be cognizant of the reactions to their proclamations.
Why not get a sampling and have them analized like the rounder boys did?
All I want to say to those that have these badges is to not destroy them just yet. This would not be the first time that good items have been condemned.
Again, I have no dog in this fight, I've already sold 1/3 of my collection. I just hate to see a badge get railroaded by faulty "science." That is also why more people don't post to this thread. It was clear early on which way it was going.pseudo-expertComment
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Well Jeff, you can say that about every item here. Hell, the original dies could still be out there spewing badges daily. That is why you need to conduct scientific analysis to establish a benchmark for these. Even the measurements provied in this thread are suspect because you need the same person using the same tool taking the measurements in the same way to be sure.
My badge is available, is your? anyone?pseudo-expertComment
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Don,Originally posted by ddoering
Let me quote on this you from the older thread...
Originally posted by ddoeringComment
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Hi Don, if the original dies were out there spewing badges I would expect they would not have the same hardware, or be finished the same way as the type 1 badges, which is exactly the scenario with these variants. Why are their dimensions not larger than the type 1? How come they are always smaller? If you are so confident in your badge why sell all your third reich zinc badges? best wishes,Originally posted by ddoering
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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Why do you think I asked someone to post a template for everyone to use. It is rocket science. The tool used is important too. No two are exactly the same.
But then again, your mind is made up and you have stated your position. Would you like me to go through the old threads and point out where you have been wrong before, they are there.
What does this have to do with the current discussion?pseudo-expertComment
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You know what Don, it is just pointless. At least when i was wrong i got the balls to admit my mistakes (and you know that).Originally posted by ddoeringComment
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Jeff, I don't know that it is real or fake. That is why I brought Philippe into the deal He went and purchased it for me as part of a grouping.Originally posted by J. VanHofwegen
As for selling and moving on, I've been heading into Imperial for a while now. Between all the neo-nazis we've acquired here and the personalities I find Imperial to be more relaxing. A hobby shouldn't be a pain.
My offer still stands. Let's get a sampling of badges together and test them.pseudo-expertComment
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What is pointless about pointing out room for error. Or are you an expert with personal knowledge of all there is to know about this badge Robert? If you don't like rocks being thrown then don't throw them yourself. Just because you have pronounced judgement on these doesn't mean everyone should bow to your intellect. Even Frank H was wrong once.Originally posted by robert60446
Can we please just stick to discussing the badge and finding ways to put the nail in the coffin of the fakes?
thank you.pseudo-expertComment
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I hear you Don, and good luck in Imperial! I would hope we don't have to many neo-nazi's in the badge forum.Originally posted by ddoering
best wishes,
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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My bronze is 50 is available to be tested and compared, anyone else beside Don and myself?
There is nothing to lose, unless they must be cut in half or melted into a puddle. Outside of obvious damage, which should be avoided, this could solve the riddle, scientifically.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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Remember Flak88 was doing that SEM testing on badges...I say try that?Comment
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