PAB Bronze Hollow, opinions please!!

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Well an interesting PAB to say the least.

Based upon the reverse pic Winfried posted this looks like a silver grade. However based upon the obverse wear my best guess would also be that it's made out of zinc and not Buntmetall. It still features the BM set-up tough.

First one for me I have never seen a hollow zinc S&L.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Well Winfried was so kind to send me the S&L PAB that started this thread for closer inspection and I must admit I learned something new today.

Not all "buntmetal" was "bunt"

Based upon the pics Winfried posted I was also of the opinion that this was a zinc badge but somehow this wouldn't make much sense since it had all the features of a buntmetal badge.

Much to my surprise this isn't a zinker but a badge made of a high quality material that isn't "bunt" (colored). It also doesn't look like neusilber (nickle silver) so I'm a bit puzzled as to how I should call this material.

The weight with 13,85grams is a perfect match to my example that IMO is made out of BM.

Here are some scans, all opinions welcome.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Philippe DB]

comp

[Philippe DB]

comp r

[robert60446]

Here are some scans, all opinions welcome.

Hi Phil,
Maybe this badge was just covered with BM layer?

[IR 529]

Not all "buntmetal" was "bunt"

Hello Philippe,
In german I would call it "Sondermessing"

[Philippe DB]

Hi Phil,
Maybe this badge was just covered with BM layer?

Dear Robert,

Wel that also crossed my mind.

It is obvious that over the base metal a gold colored coating was applied(cfr. the shiny reverse on my badge). Most likely when new Winfried badge would have looked the same. On top of that coating a dark chocolat colored wash was used.

Even on Winfrieds badge the gold colored coating is still visible on the obverse of the swas.

However even taking in to account that my badge is in very good condition I would have a hard time believing that their could be white metal underneath the gold color.

Here is a detailed scan of my Silver S&L and it clearly is buntmetal that becomes visible on the very worn area's.

Any other worn hollow BM S&L's out there?

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Hello Philippe,
In german I would call it "Sondermessing"

IR are you kidding me or does this really exist

KR
Philippe

[robert60446]

Here is a detailed scan of my Silver S&L and it clearly is buntmetal that becomes visible on the very worn area's.

Thanks Phil! Could you please post the same quality scan from Winfried's PAB?...

[VonLuger]

on close up pic its strange it looks buntmetal color and from the far shot it looks silver?..How about the badge was refinished and that is why the silver is sticking to the worn parts?

[Philippe DB]

Thanks Phil! Could you please post the same quality scan from Winfried's PAB?...

Dear Robert,

It wouldn't fit in to the restrictions, I'll e-mail you some high resolution scans.

KR
Philippe

[IR 529]

IR are you kidding me or does this really exist

KR
Philippe

Hi Philippe,
maybe a little bit. Sorry, about that.

"Sondermessing" is a topic for all alloys made with copper + zinc + other metals. For example, Neusilber is a Sondermessing too.

[Philippe DB]

Hi IR,

Well to be able to file it and find it in a couple of months I named it the "Sondermessing S&L"

Here is a larger scan showing about the same area on Winfrieds badge as the above.

KR
Philippe

[IR 529]

Hi IR,

Well to be able to file it and find it in a couple of months I named it the "Sondermessing S&L"

Sounds good

Could it be newsilver with a dark patina ?