panzer destruction badge

[Koen P]

another strange bird in the whole lot of badges I am offered ( see my 10 or so other threads !!

this panzer destruction arm badge looks damn good to me..
but I want an expert view on this

help me out please , real or fake ??

it is on a cloth backing and between the silver wire cloth and the green cloth I see a iron backplate and prongs going through.. but it is impossible to picture that

thanks

Koen

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi again

Could be good - but wait for more opinions!

Cheers Thomas

[Patrick W]

Tough one. The tank looks a little large and the black weave runs in the opposite direction that is generally accepted on good ones. BUT many believe there is much to be learnt about this award and that this type could be good (including Robin Lumsden if I remember correctly). I don't think you will get a definite answer either way. Can we see a shot of the backing?
Personally on such a scarce badge I will go for textbook every time.

[mvm71]

If you could give us a shot of the back would be great, that helps quite a bit.

Good Luck,
Mike

[Darrell]

another strange bird in the whole lot of badges I am offered ( see my 10 or so other threads !!thanks

Koen

Considering the authenticity of the others ... I'd be leary of anything offered in that group if it were me

[Chet Sowersby]

Mind you, I don't collect these. With what I do know about them I would be leary of this one however.

Chet

[WBallok]

I would stick to the types accepted as being originals. Some people have suggested that the type you are asking about was made in Austria in the late 1970s. I cannot prove that this PVA is a fake but I would not buy it.

Bill

[Frank Heukemes]

Only thing that looks convincing is the faked aging. It compares well to the known and best fake of these and does not compare well to the known originals and that should be enough.

[Gunner II]

Just an observation....if the tanks is corroded in that way, shouldn 't the cloth been affected by it. It looks just so clean around the tank while that is obvious corroded.

Something I just wonder about:

[deejay]

Hi,

first: check out e-stand. Two same types are being offered, (the first not a gold version at all imo.)

These badges turn up once in a while and have uniek characteristics to them. The size of the tank being bigger than the more common and better known types, being non-magnetic and of high quallity metall stamping.

The silver alu-strip with the different stitched black-bands other than that looking exactly like the more common version if you know what I mean. The backing material all the same but vary in colour (which is not uncommon.)

I have been studying these badges for a while now but have to admit - even not ever having handeld this particulair one - I do believe they are actual TDB's. Just a different manufacture.

The reasons I believe they are okay is:

1) There is photographic evidence of the "larger tank" being worn.
2) The quallity is very much up to the standards to be expected of the authentic pre-1945 manufactured ones.
3) There is no proof of these being (post war) reproductions as very little has been written on who and how many makers there where of this badge.
4) This is type is a rarely seen. But then again all authentic ones are getting very scarce. Right now I can only find one original for sale on the internet beside the two on e-stand.

Fact is also two well known militaria dealers have sold this type for the price of the more common types, one even with a COA.

Would I pay the price of at least Euro 550.00? I totally agree with the others, no I would not.

I am a variation collector of these and have a few different types of which I am 100% confident of, but I would not gamble by paying that high amount because these do not have the status as being 100% original.

hope this also helped.

Many regards,

DJ

[djpool]

Koen,

Heres a comparison of yours to some Known Repros. You make the call. jim

[Gunner II]

This discussed badge looks nothing like the first fake, but get's realy close to the second one. In my prospective it is a " no 2" with an aging treatment.
The cloth however is identical to the first fake, so maybe someone put one and one together and got out two?

[Tim Curley]

Would I pay 500 euros for the TDB shown in this thread? Absolutely not, regardless of who was selling it!

As I stated in another thread, I sold 2 of this exact same badge at the SOS, labeled them clearly as "repro", and charged $35 a piece. I had bought the badges back in the late 1970s, thinking they were real. Back then, there was no information on TDBs and these "Austrian" fakes looked very convincing. And as long as collectors thought they were original, many dealers were happy to sell them as original, even though these dealers knew they were fakes.

A long-time collector was aware of these Silver TDBs being "wholesaled" at one of the old OVMS shows back in the 1970s. A seller had buches of them which he sold to various dealers in different-size lots. Eventually the market was saturated and production stopped. He said the Gold version sold poorly as the brocade color was too far off from what people thought it should be so a lot fewer Gold TDBs were produced in Austria.

When he saw this flood of TDBs, he confronted a dealer he had known for a long time and the dealer admitted they were all new fakes.

[Gaspare]

guys please correct me if I'm wrong here but,,
,,There are many photos of the badge in wear,,and many that are clear enough to make out the details of the badge..I can't remember ever seeing one photo that shows the tank crowding the black stripes and with the lines in the black stripes running to the left....

[deejay]

Hi Gaspare,

Who said anything about the "tank crowding the black stripes" ?

DJ