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    #1

    Bronze PAB by Frank&Reif, postwar ? geniue ?

    Hi all,

    just had that PAB in hands today. I took the pics to ask for your opinion before eventually buying the PAB.
    I was told that this maker still produced some badges after the war on their original machines.
    So the question is is this a pre´45 PAB or postwar ??

    Any input is highly welcome.

    If real, what we be the value of this badge ?

    Many thanks Jens
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Hi Jens,

    From this obverse picture I can't see anything wrong with it. Looks like an original albeit very worn F&R bronze grade.

    Could you give us some more info about F&R producing after Mai '45.

    KR
    Philippe

    Comment

      #3
      Since the Forum had a time out I couldnt post more pics. Here they are...

      Many thanks Philippe for your opinion. I have showed the badge to two well experienced badges collectors and both told me that Frank&Reif as well as Souval produced a few badges after the war. I dont know when and why but I heared of that before.

      Here are some pics of the reverse.

      Many thanks Jens
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #4
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          #5
          Hi Jens,

          Wel textbook all the way I would say.

          If they were produced after Mai '45, apart from the people involved, nobody will be able to tell. The badge you posted is accepted as an original.

          KR
          Philippe

          Comment

            #6
            3
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              #7
              Ok, thank you again Philippe. Iam realy no badges guy and therefore I dont know much about them myself. How much are they worth today ?

              Many thanks Jens

              Comment

                #8
                Hi Jens

                If you want a guide on value I think you should look on dealer sites or the estand for guidance

                Alternatively you should PM one of the moderators for a guide and if you then want to sell it, put it on the estand at that price.

                That way we will avoid the auction type sale that you managed to create when you last asked for a price on the cupal IAB.

                regards
                Graeme

                Comment

                  #9
                  I remember a thread sometime back stating that Frank and Reif was bombed out in 1944(losing their dies in the process) and subsequently produced no more badges.

                  The thread was titled"I spoke to Mr reif today" and was started by Frank.
                  If you use the words "Frank and reif and "destroyed" in the search engine you should find it.
                  Last edited by keifer kahn; 03-01-2006, 02:43 AM.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    hi keifer

                    I think you misunderstood this term"pre 45". Pre45 means war time here (1939~May,1945). It doesn't just mean 1945. Maybe Jens' F&R IAB was made in 43', but it still means pre45.

                    KR
                    Indy

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Im not confused,
                      Jens original query was is this badge prewar or post war because some other collectors had told him that F&R produced badges after the war.
                      My point about the dies being destroyed is that F&R cannot of produced badges after 1944,so his badge must be an original wartime produced piece.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        hi keifer

                        ok. I'm sorry ..looks like I misunderstood time to hit the sack .

                        KR
                        Indy

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Not only were the dies of F&R destroyed in that bob raid, but F&R also ran into severe problems with the occupying Americans after the war, being labeled as a "Nazi company." Especially Frank & Reif ran into those problems, because they had their address data "Frank & Reif, Stuttgart" on their badges. That way they got a lot of American "visitors" to the company after the war. That would surely have been the last company to produce badges with swastika after the war.
                          Cheers, Frank

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