PAB opions please??

[hellracer1]

Hello,
I get these PAB and I am not sure, that´s an original, its look like an porsche variante. I hope, that the pictures are good enough.

http://www.File-Upload.net/05.10.05/gg9k46.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/05.10.05/lwnctz.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/05.10.05/ged5x.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/05.10.05/6xmler.jpg

Best regards

Winfried

[Frank Heukemes]

Hi Winfried,

This badge does not give me a good feeling. The setup is all wrong for this maker and the badge itself has a weird finish and bad detail. In my opinion not a variant, but a fake.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi Winfried,

I agree with Frank, doesn't look original. The pin is very similar as those found on '57 awards.

Tom D.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Winfried,


A agree this is a Porsche based copy. Never seen this type before, where did you pick it up?

KR
Philippe

[hellracer1]

Hello Phillipe,
you are right, I study all the PAB fakes that I known and I don´t found these variante. That was the reason, that I am not 100 % sure, that is a fake. I get these PAB from private.

Best regards

Winfried

[Philippe DB]

Hi Winfried


Is it possible for you to provide us with exact measurements?

It's always difficult to judge something you have never seen but in the case of this badge there are a few obvious points of concern to say the least

By now we know the evolution of the Posche PAB form early NS over Buntmetal, Cupal and both solid & hollow zinc

This badges doesn't fit in anywhere. Most important for me is the set-up. This just isn't period hardware. Apart from the round pin you also have the combination of a Hinge typical for zinkers and a catch typical for buntmetall badges.

Then you have the material. What would this badge be made out? For sure not zinc. Somekind of buntmetal that developed a discoloration that reminds me a lot of grounddug buntmetall badges. In this case it's probably the result of artificial ageing.

The obverse seems rather crisp but that for sure isn't the case with the reverse. All original Porsches even the late zinker will show a very crisp revers inprint.

For a long time I thought we only had the "two dot" Porsche fakes to worry about but in the meantime I discoverd a few more. Some are still made at this moment others are fakes that most likely are around for a very long time. The badge you poosted for e belongs in the later category.

KR
Philippe

[hellracer1]

Hello Phillipe,

the measurements are:

weight 14,64 g, 61.3mm x 41,5mm

the material is not magnetic, only the " Nadelbock " I don´t no the englisch word is magnetic. I don´t know which material it is. I have made more pitures, I hope its helps.


http://www.File-Upload.net/06.10.05/gskq3n.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/06.10.05/584t7.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/06.10.05/j3kj4a.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/06.10.05/1e2q5v.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/06.10.05/pr89p2.jpg
http://www.File-Upload.net/06.10.05/bje2tu.jpg


KR Winfried

[Philippe DB]

Hi Winfried,


Thanks for the additional pics. I'll have to check the measurements tonight but from memory they are ok.

This indeed is a very strange badge. Based upon your additional pics the reverse detailing looks just perfect.

Can you see any evidence that both hinge and catch might have been replaced?

Did you try to scratch the material a little to see if there is something else underneath that almost red looking surface?
Can you find any traces of dirt or mud in the recessed areas of the badge?

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Well the more I look at the additional pics the more I'm convinced that this is an original badge that had a very hard life.

Most likely made out of buntmetal, grounddug or stored in a very moist environment and with a replacement set-up.

Winfried could you try to make one more close-up of the eagles head, I have a feeling that there won't be much detailing left there.

KR
Philippe

[hellracer1]

Hi Phillipe,
I scratch the material a little bit and it is silver, there is no rust. I cannot see, that the hinge and catch might have been replaced.

KR Winfried

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Just for the record i'm bringing this one back to the top. Winfried was so kind to send me the badge for some hands on evaluation.

I have to admit that this was all but easy and in the beginning I was convinced that it indeed was a repaired grounddug badge. However something kept budgging me: The set-up is indeed original to this badge. Since this isn't a known set-up for a Porsche PAB or for any other badge for that matter it just didn't make sense.

Closer examination under magnification revealed that this indeed is a cast. The pitting and poor detailing are not the result of corrosion but the result of casting, most clearly visible on the rim of the badge.

Here are some scans of this strange and IMO very old copy a copy that can't be faulted on its measurements because they are a match with the originals. Also highly unussual.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

eagle, poor detail not being the result of corrosion but the result of poor casting

[Philippe DB]

reverse

[Philippe DB]

pitting in the reverse

[Philippe DB]

and some casting marks on the rim