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**robert60446** · 07-03-2005, 02:51 PM

Looks like an interesting example of the "crimp" PAB to me.

**Philippe DB** · 07-03-2005, 02:53 PM

Hi Robert,

I have to admit that I'm not to found of it. The reverse look incredibly soft. On the other hand based upon your pics it isn't a perfect match to the copies I know of this PAB type either. Could you post some profile shots of the hinge.

KR
Phlippe

**eastlandb1** · 07-03-2005, 03:03 PM

I Am Afraid This Is All The Pics I Have. I Will Try To Get More. Robert

**robert60446** · 07-03-2005, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Philippe DB

I have to admit that I'm not to found of it. The reverse look incredibly soft. On the other hand based upon your pics it isn't a perfect match to the copies I know of this PAB type either. Could you post some profile shots of the hinge.

KR
Phlippe

Hi Philippe,
You are absolutely correct. The front of this badge is 1:1 perfect match. What was holding me back for 17 minutes was the reverse side of this badge. However if the "fakers" managed to get obverse details in the perfect order why wouldn't they pay attention to the much easier reverse setup...? However i agree it is a very dangerous assumption...so the better pictures would be a great help in this case.<o =""></o>

**Philippe DB** · 07-03-2005, 03:12 PM

Hi Robert,

Just gave this a little more thought and as far as I'm concerned this has to be a variant on the existing copies.

Neither hinge nor catch seem to be crimped. Arround th hinge area you have something that looks like a crimp and arround the catch, as is typical for these fakes, you have nothing.

There exist originals with soldered on hardware but you always will clearly see the original crimps on these badges.

So to be honest, I wouldn't waste my time on this PAB.

KR
Philippe

**skip** · 07-03-2005, 03:13 PM

If its a casting, which I would think it is, the front will always be a good match to the original. Much harder to get the reverse setup right when you are just casting badges, anybody can do that in their garage.

Skip

**Chet Sowersby** · 07-03-2005, 03:17 PM

I belive it to be a casting also.

Chet

**Philippe DB** · 07-03-2005, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by robert60446

Hi Philippe,
However if the "fakers" managed to get obverse details in the perfect order why wouldn't they pay attention to the much easier reverse setup...? <O =""></O>

Hi Robert,

Well that it easy. Just try yourself to push the obverse of a PAB in to some clay. You immediately will have a perfect image. try to do the same thing with the reverse. Yep that doesn't work does it. The first thing you have to do is to take apart the badge and remove the setup. Once that is done certainly with a crimped set-up it doesn't take much imagination to see what a mess-up you will leave in your clay. The obverse is the easy thing to copy, getting the reverse and the set-up correct is the difficult part.

KR
Philippe

**robert60446** · 07-03-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Philippe DB

Hi Robert,

Well that it easy. Just try yourself to push the obverse of a PAB in to some clay. You immediately will have a perfect image. try to do the same thing with the reverse. Yep that doesn't work does it. The first thing you have to do is to take apart the badge and remove the setup. Once that is done certainly with a crimped set-up it doesn't take much imagination to see what a mess-up you will leave in your clay. The obverse is the easy thing to copy, getting the reverse and the set-up correct is the difficult part.

KR
Philippe

Hi Philippe,
point well taken! On the other hand Philippe your extended knowledge about manufacturing procedures for making copies really made me thinking…

. On the serious note thanks for the quick lesson about casting!

**eastlandb1** · 07-03-2005, 04:15 PM

THANKS FOR THE INFO. THE BADGE IS BEING SOLD AS ORIGINAL AND FOR $135.00. A LITTLE CHEAP THESE DAYS. HERE IS THE SITE. WWW.IRONCROSSMILITARY.COM

CHECK IT OUT. ROBERT

**Patrick W** · 07-03-2005, 05:29 PM

the pab, IAB and wound badge are fake and appear to come from the same source. the rest look ok but won't be buying from this guy unless I see something real good real cheap!

**robert60446** · 07-03-2005, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Patrick W

the pab, IAB and wound badge are fake and appear to come from the same source. the rest look ok but won't be buying from this guy unless I see something real good real cheap!

You are correct Patrick! It makes me wonder is this guy (site owner) aware of it or maybe he just doesn’t know (i know, i'm naive...).<o =""></o>

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