Bronze CCC Detlev sold on Friday

[Thomas Durante]

Anyone else suspicious about the bronze Nahkampfspange Detlev had on his update on Friday? The obverse matches exactly with fakes being sold on ebay and at shows. I have seen them both marked FLL & F&BL. They all have that very blunt bayonet and the eagle looks to be wearing a hairpiece. On the reverse, the pin is always very blunt and rounded, more so than the originals.

Tom D.

[Dennis GT]

This One?

This One?

[Thomas Durante]

Thats the one Dennis, what do you think?

[Ludwig]

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Now I wouldn´t say that´s a well worn original.

[Thomas Durante]

Wow Ludwig, I am stunned. This is probably the most widely produced fake CCC around! I would estimate that this clasp makes up about 50% of the fake CCCs I have seen at shows and on ebay. The obverse is pretty much the same, but are marked all sorts of ways. Anyone else have an opinion on this clasp???

The following are just 2 examples I had on file. The bronze was marked FLL in 3 perfect circles and crimped in backplate and pin like the one that Detlev sold. The silver is one from Manions. These are so widely reproduced that I didn't bother to save any others on file since they are so prevelent and didn't think collectors took them seriously.

Tom D.

[Thomas Durante]

Bronze "questionable" CCC, marked FLL

[Thomas Durante]

Silver "questionable" CCC, marked F&BL

[Thomas Durante]

Silver "questionable" CCC, reverse shot, showing same crimping & wrong maker mark

[Thomas Durante]

Doing a quick search of some of the online dealers, I came up with this one for sale, looks to be an exact match to Detlevs, same pin, backplate crimping, catch, butter-knife bayonet, etc. Looks to be marked F&BL underneath the catch. Lucky guy even found 2 of them to sell.......

http://antiques-internet.com/colorad...age/IP4071.htm

Also, check out this guy's website.....

http://www.garryo.utvinternet.com/we...w/preview.html

Tom D.

[Dennis GT]

Thake a look a this. Do you see that both sides of the clasp are not the same? I outlined the bad side. I have seen this on a lot of the fakes.

[Ludwig]

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There you see, Tom. I´m learning all the time.

[Thomas Durante]

Thanks for the closeup Dennis. I don't think this is a rule for all clasps, I have seen Juncker clasps that are not symmetrical, but generally its a good thing to look for. You can see on the silver one I posted that I posted that it has the same characteristic as the one Detlev sold and the rest of the fakes I posted.

The biggest give away on these is the bayonet. No original clasp has a bayonet like that, looks like a butter knife.

Tom D.

[Hans N]

Hi,

what if the so called fake is a original late war manufactured made in a new mold? The so called original CCC is the only F&BL made award that has the up-side down makermark, there are no other award by this maker with that feature on the mm.

Question would then be why is it like this?

The up-side down makermark don´t make sense and don´t have a logical answer either. If it was done on deliberately then why only on the CCC clasps?

The only answer to this would be that when the mold for the so called original was made, someone made the mm wrong accidentaly and the firm didn´t have time to wait for a new mold with the mm the right way and accepted the "flaw". Late in the war then the mold was not useable for some reason, destroyed, cracked or what ever, and the firm then made a new mold with some new features in design and this time made shure the mm got to be the right way up (as seen on the LW claps).

Just my thoughts about this.

[Paul27]

F&BL marked ccc's,should have the maker upside down above the catch.The notches in the V shaped seagull over the acorn's,should also look like a seagull or whatever it's suppose to be. Not like those notched in the repro B&NL. Paul

[chris clark]

im trying to keep up here!!! interesting about the tell tale signs to look for and minor alterations on the fakes,

so is the answer that detlevs clasp is a dud???