Sorry if this is the wrong thread to place these, I was offered these shooting medals today and I was wandering if they were Country medals or state. Does anyone have a rough value for these, I need to get back to the person.
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Single medals
I do really like these, the lady said that her Father was one of the best shots in Germany. He was a medic in the Luftwaffe -
These are Gau awards from the Landesschiessen. They are actually a qualification badge (Leistungsabzeichen) rather than an award. The distinction being that there were more than one awarded as the badges were meant to denote individual shooting achievement at various levels in the state shooting contest, not competitive recognition over others . The Tirol had the largest attendance of the shooting competitions held in the Reich with many top Third Reich officials attending including Himmler. As the contest grew in popularity from its inception in 1938, additional achievement levels were added. There were 6,000 competitors in 1938, 8,000 in 1939 and 10,000 or so participants in 1940, 16,000 shooters competed in 1941 and over 14,000 received various achievement badges.
As to prices, this is a difficult area. If you look at the dealer sites like Weitze you will see them offered for anything in the region of 120 - 160 Euros. However check back several months later & they will still be there unsold....
The rarest piece in that group in the 1940 Armeegewehr, now that one is worth around 200 euro.
Is there a serial number on the reverse of the 1941 Meisterschütze?
Cheers
DonComment
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Don,
Thank you for the explanation of the badges it was very informative and I am learning a lot about them, I have found them in the Detlev Niemann book which gives me something which I can show the lady, she was after a £1,000 for the collection which I could not do without looking into them more.
The number on the back is 377 which I guess may be for her father who was "Friedrich (Fritz) Konstantin Werner" he was meant to be a medic in the Luftwaffe, she said that he was the top shot in Germany but I have not been able to find anything on this.
She said that she may have a photo but she cannot find it yet, but she does have some paperwork about his carrier. I guess that the competition was like our Bisley! I have shot there a few times which was why I was interested in these.
Thanks again.
NigelComment
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Rear of badges
377Comment
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Originally posted by kalamees View Post
You are most welcome Nigel.
Personally I would say £1K is a bit steep... Regarding the serial number, I have the awardee names for all of the numbers for these badges from 1942, 1943, 1944 & the 3 year badges. Unfortunately the recording process wasn't as good in 1941 & I have only managed to tie together around 50% of the numbers to names. I do not have a listing for #377, however I do have the name Fr. Werner listed as from Baden-Wien winning a badge for that year, the number of his badge was not recorded....
Cheers
DonComment
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Thanks Don, £1,000 is very steep I was hoping to pay about £300 for the collection which I would have done at risk not knowing anything about them. It is a shame that the lists got better as the War progressed, It will be interesting to see what paperwork she has. At least his name is mentioned that year.
Cheers, NigelComment
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Talk about perfect timing. Not knowing much about these myself I decided to research it here and what do I see but this thread.
Here's a gold one ( most of the gold wash has worn away) I just picked up yesterday from a house call with a US Army veteran.Comment
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Thank you for posting this.
A.G. & co pieces are only found in bronze, silver & gold for 1939 & the Kleinkaliber 1940 badges shown here. The ones in the posts by Gary are manufactured by Carl Poellath.
A.G. & co marked badges are very controversial. Many believe them to be fake, the main reason being that so far no one has been able to identify who exactly A.G. & co were (if they existed during the period).
However the badges are not cast copies, or made with old dies as there are die differences between the Poellath & the A.G. pieces. Both Poellath & the AG pieces are magnetic & they also have the same measurements.... The only other noticeable difference is that the gold finish is almost always missing on the A.G. pieces...
If they are fake then someone went to great lengths to make them the same.
Cheers
DonComment
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That's interesting information. They are very nice and have enameling of the type I'd expect to see with an authentic Third Reich made piece. Mine is not magnetic but solid, heavy, tombac. I too tried to look up this maker but with no luck. I wondered whether the firm may have been Jewish and forced to close due to the lack of information on them. I also found a couple of like marked examples which have sold on Barry Turks site Emedals (which doesn't necessarily mean they're real) so I didn't question what I have. It's sad that I now have to wonder if it's real or not. That being said though I also have a "real" 1938 athletic event badge made by a firm named Rob. Neff Berlin W. 35 . I can't find any information on them either, yet the badge is real.Originally posted by Don Scowen View PostComment
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This is really interesting stuff I am looking forward to seeing this lady again with the badges to tell her what information has been posted. Thanks again NigelComment
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interesting pieces but with very limited opportunity to sell later - these are harder to sell, especially for price over 100 EUR each!Comment
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Don, what about the pin on the A.G. & Co. badge? It is different from all the others.
I see these badges at most shows I go to, and have yet to pay much attention to them. They always seem overpriced, and I never see anyone buying them.Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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Sapere audeComment
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Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post
You can find both pin types on the Poellath pieces. They can be found with the standard narrow pinplate & pin often used on early Poellath badges (seen on the other badges in the group shot above) & with the Jeweller catch type seen on the ones shown by Gary.
I've often wondered whether the awardee could select the badge with the type of pin they preferred or whether it was random.....
However on the A.G. pieces you only ever see the type shown on this one above.
I made a mistake on my earlier reply which vonStubben picked up on. It is the 1939 pieces that are magnetic not the 1940, sorry.
Cheers
DonComment
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I think that you are right they would be hard to shift in the future especially if they are priced high. I think that I would rather buy an award. If the lady is expecting a £1000 and she is emotionally close with these then I think that I will be giving them a miss, I would rather not try to low ball her. Thank you all for the comments, I have learned a lot. NigelComment
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