The Luftschutz 1 Class types

[Norm F]

To be fair, I can see some of the similarities, but at the same time, I can also see the similarities between the above Meybauer and mine.

Hi the cyclist,

Yes, your badge is the same type as the one posted by Antonio in post #3 back in 2014. And although some may disagree, in my opinion that "Meybauer" is in fact a post-war Souval. It was only called a Meybauer back then because of the indistinctly marked "L/1?" light blue case in which it was obtained by Giel in 2012.

There is no documentation to date of a Meybauer-made LS1 although there are some reproductions (different from this one) with an L/13 stamp in them. As mentioned in the other thread, Souval's production of cast awards varied in quality from quite good in the 1950's and 60's to poor in the 1970's and 80's, so early production can have a nice beguiling finish.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Antonio Scapini]

Give it back, your medal is a post war Souval.

[Norm F]

Hi the cyclist,

For future reference, here are side-by-side comparisons of your badge (from your posts on the other forum) and the Souval type (formerly "Meybauer-attributed") that came in the light blue box.

The detail is poorer on the "former Meybauer" and the finish is applied more thickly which obscures the surface scratches but nevertheless they can be seen to be the same type. Although the stippling detail is better on yours, it picked up some other surface errors in the casting. These kinds of random errors in the casting cause variation between examples of the Souval-type.

Another example of this type can be seen in post #6 of this thread.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

reverse. Again, despite the blurry photos, the stippling detail is much better in "the cyclist" example which I believe illustrates the variability in the casting process over time and from batch to batch.

[Norm F]

But despite the variability in surface detail and different casting errors seen from medal to medal in the Souval type LS1, there are also some fundamental surface features from the dies that come through in most examples (depending on the quality of the photos).

[the cyclist]

Gentlemen, thank you both very much. I just wanted to be 100% sure that it was a fake before I parted with a potentially very rare medal. The thread is most informative and I will try and get my money back.

[netkuuk]

What do you think of this medal? I Bought it last year. Is this a closed M?

[Norm F]

What do you think of this medal? I Bought it last year. Is this a closed M?

Hi netkuuk,

No, that's not the "closed M" (or "Deumer-like"). Yours is the "central IM" design; it has a very different type of spacing on the lettering and different suspension loop at right angles to the medal.

That's the design that is depicted in the Schickle catalog and is also depicted in Angolia's 1978 "For Führer and Fatherland", but that's not to say that your medal is a Schickle or even a Meybauer. It actually raises more questions than it answers.

There are flaws that suggest it's cast production with poor quality control rather than die struck. Whether the L/13 mark is wartime or post-war is hard to say.

It's in the "dubious category" so far, although it's not the first one to show up and the Schickle catalog image has to be considered.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's another of this type that was posted previously with a similar L/13 mark. Again, the obverse shows what look like casting pits and defects, and the stippling is relatively indistinct compared with the "S&L" (open M) and "Deumer" (closed M) designs.

[Norm F]

And another of the "central M" design, but unmarked and apparently in zinc. The stippling is much more distinct but there's an apparent casting seam on the edge.

[Norm F]

edge view. (I don't recall where these images came from.)

[Norm F]

Here's the Schickle catalog image from 1938 suggesting that there should be some originals of this "central IM" design (although not in zinc back in that time). The example on the right for comparison is in some kind of white base metal or flash-coated Tombak.

Also, the image from Angolia's 1978 "For Führer and Fatherland" showing the same design on the left. Appearing in that 1978 book doesn't add to wartime credibility unfortunately, since the reverse image on the right looks like a post-war Souval.

[netkuuk]

I believe mine is Original i bought it from a good dealer.

I don't know if it's cast or die struck. But i believe they finished the edges after casting or die struck.

Do i need to make beter pictures of some parts? I can do that tomorrow.

[Norm F]

I believe mine is Original i bought it from a good dealer.

Buying from a good dealer is important in terms of return policy, not originality, since all dealers make mistakes. At least a good dealer makes honest mistakes.

That's not say that your medal is a fake, only that you have to do your own research and not rely on a dealer.

I don't know if it's cast or die struck. But i believe they finished the edges after casting or die struck.

Do i need to make beter pictures of some parts? I can do that tomorrow.

It would be nice to see closeups of the internal margins of the cutouts within the circle, although I already suspect it to be cast production based on the earlier observations. Good photomicrographs would likely clinch the casting question but good quality USB microscopes are still quite expensive.

Best regards,
---Norm

[netkuuk]

I tried to make some good pictures but its difficult without a good camera or microscope.

I also think its cast and then sanded the edges.