Super rare Luftschutz service medal 1. class with ribbon

[Norm F]

Slightly better photos of the same fake "L/13" were posted later by "Loggie" here. It looks somewhat worse than Alex's "middle" badge, and the circular wreath is thinner. There's no shortage of fakes around, it seems.

[Norm F]

To cleanse the palate, here's Antonio's recently posted wartime-compatible example of the S&L design in zinc. Nice detailed pebbling seen between the lettering and between the arms of the swastika, and an intact suspension ring system.

[kenneth wolfe]

I know that one of the key topics of discussion here is that there's a L/58 stamp on the ring that I posted but this was a guess on my part. It's not clear as you can see from the pictures I posted in 2008 and honestly it could be something different. I will pull it out and try to take some more pictures.

[kenneth wolfe]

So which manufacture was assigned L/58?

[Alex W.]

So which manufacture was assigned L/58?

Rudolf Souval, Vienna

[Norm F]

So which manufacture was assigned L/58?

Hi Ken,

It would be great to see a better photo of the mark. For comparison, here's a post-war Blockade Breaker badge from Rudolf Souval, stamped with their "L/58" mark, the obverse of which is based upon the S&L design.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Also for comparison, a couple of "L/58" marked Souval "droop-tail" Spanish Cross, circa early 1960s (the bottom one is Alex's). No one can accuse of Souval of poor production quality in that era.

[Norm F]

And again, for reference, Ken's "L/58" Luftschutz from his 2008 posting.

[Norm F]

The '57 forum is a great source for past discussions on the Souval/S&L connection and also Souval's habit of casting S&L designs for their 1950-60s production, which were often marked "L/58". Here are a few of the threads in which Nigel has talked about this:

Souval KVK1

Souval cast 57ers!!!!!!!!!!

Souval Medal Bar

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Alex's Souval-attributed unmarked cast LS1 on the left and Ken's "L/58" example on the right, showing the same surface characteristics.

[kenneth wolfe]

How is Alex's attributed to Souval

[kenneth wolfe]

Alex W.

Rudolf Souval, Vienna

was it really? Please see link.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/reserach_tools/ldo.htm

[Norm F]

Alex W. was it really? Please see link.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/reserach_tools/ldo.htm

That misprint on the WAF LDO number reference page has been there since the dawn of time (I asked the same question almost 8 years ago); unfortunately, the administrators and mods have no access to edit those pages and it would require the owner to hire someone with html skills. Fortunately, every other reference on the web and in print, as well as wartime ads from Souval and post-war correspondence with Herr Umlauf (proprietor) from 1966 all confirm their LDO number was L/58.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Now back to the example from the opening post with the "Souval notches", compared to an S&L-design zincer. Just like Alex's Souval-attributed example it's much thinner than the wartime-compatible example, but also the margins of the internal cutouts are quite rough and lacking in finish.

To me, this looks the same as Souval's casting techniques as described by Nigel in the '57 forum.

[the cyclist]

Hi Ron, too bad your analysys is not enough to evaluate these medals.
During the TR era we know several pieces were produced with casting process or die forging process.
Same flaws present on LS 1 class are visible also in other badges, for example the Bandenkampf.

Maybe the Buntmetall LS 1 class were produced in one strike (I have my doubts about...) but we don't know it for certain.
Zinc medals I handled and studied, show seam lines here and there, and shows typical signs of the trimming process in the same exact way we know from other badges.

These signs are NEVER present on Souval post-war badges. The S&L post war badges are still a border line field, and maybe only the die flaws could tell something about them, but not the seam line.

Hi Antonio,

I may/ may not have one of the Souval LS1 in question.

From the quote above, are you saying that a genuine LS1 would HAVE a seam line in the inner part of the medal and that a Souval copy wouldn't have one??

Sorry I can't post you a picture, as I don't have permission.