Unknown coin ???

[Marc verstraete]

Hello dear friends,

Here an other pickle, who knows anything about German coins?
This coin is not supposed to have existed many peoples already told me when asking around at the MAX show but some of the same peoples where offering me a lot of $$ for it.
The coin is not finished, I mean, it is still in the piece of silver where it was stamped in and so it could be a test strike.
This is probably not the right forum site for this question but maybe someone can help me to find a honest person who will really tell me what this thing is and what it is really worth.

Thank you.
Marc V. (German buckles collector)

[Marc verstraete]

other side

[Gary B]

Marc,

Although I can not identify the coin/medallion, from your pictures it appears to be a cameo proof. Proof coins are a type of coin that are produced from specially prepared dies. The fields (lower portions) are highly polished while the devices (raised portions) are given a flat type finish usually thru a chemical process or diamond dust polishing. Cameo denotes the amount of contrast between the devices and fields (ultra cameo being the highest rating given proof coins)

For identification you might want to check with a coin dealer. Heritage Coin galleries in Texas (on the web) is one of the best coin companies in the US and deals in US and international coins. You may also want to look into having one of the coin certification companies identify, slab and grade the coin.

I will also say that test/prototype coins are usually struck on a planchet (round piece of metal the same dimensions of the coin). Is your piece thick like a coin?

Some test strikes for pins (I know of one Ruptured Duck discharge emblem struck in pewter) are struck on larger pieces of softer metal to test the die characteristic of the die. It could be possible that this was a die test piece, but I still think a planchet would be used for the coin since you would also want to check the rim of the coin.

Hope this helps.

Gary

[Richard]

Gary is correct with his assesment that this appears to be struck as a proof. I would think it unusual that any coin would be struck on a piece of metal that was larger than the coin itself. As Gary pointed out, coins are produced from planchets which are metal disks intended to fit into the dies that strike the coin. There is also a collar that prevents the metal from "leaking" or being squeezed out of the seam that would be present where the two dies come together. Though commonly produced in modern times (primarily after 1972) with the intention of creating this effect, cameo proof pieces were usually only the result of the first few strikes of the die and therefore command premium prices for US proofs produced prior to 1973. What I find very unusual is the state of preservation. There appear to be no marks or disturbance on the "frost" of the devices such as the eagle and the bust of Hitler. Proof coins are extraordinarily sensitive and even rubbing the mirror surface of one with a cloth can produce tiny scratches called hairlines that impair the surface. This coin looks remarkably well preserved though it does appear that there may be hairlines present in the fields. First guess would be that it is a trial strike of proposed coinage, a so called pattern piece. I still have no rationalization as to why it was struck on a square piece of metal without use of a collar. Again, Gary is correct in pointing out that many badges, particularly tinnies, were punched out on sheets of metal and then trimmed down to their respective sizes.
Richard V

[Marc verstraete]

Hello guys,
It sounds like I am dealing with some peoples who know what they talk about here. I am a little lost in the technical part of the explanation but great information, thank you.
I send hereby two more picture so you guys have a better understanding of the item.
The thickness of the metal is about equal to the thickness of a Norman German silver pre-war coin (Hindenburg head) and I had this item tested with a test stone, the whole item is in sterling silver; This is noticeable at the black oxidation witch started on the edges. I hope this gives more information.
O, yes, last thing to make this information complete, this pice was part of my uncle’s war souvenirs; he was Major later L. Col. In the Canadian army during the war (commander of the “Governors generals food guards”) and was military governor of the province of Thilburg in Holland until 1946.
He did not smoke and he exchanged his cigarettes for German precious metal items. This is the only item I cannot identify.
Marc V.

[Marc verstraete]

full.

[Gary B]

Perplexed

Marc,

I have never seen anything like it. I have dabbled in coin collecting for many years and this is the first time I have seen something, American or foreign, struck on a square piece of silver.

I think your best bet is to begin to contact coin experts. Try www.Heritagecoin.com They were the company I mentioned to you in the previous thread. They just finished selling off the multi million dollar "Ohio foreign coin" collection a few weeks ago. I am not sure who you can contact but they might be able to assist.

Hope this helps.

Gary

[Marc verstraete]

Hi Gary,
I send an e-mail to the site you give me, I wait for answer;
Marc V.

[PH1]

Any news about this coin after six years?

I found this information:
http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=442330

Actually, Goetz made a 5 Reichsmark Pattern in 1942 (K-659):

As quoted by Mr. Kurt Jaeger of Stuttgart, the eminent German numistmatist:

"...Quite different however, is the case of a Hitler pattern 5 Reichsmark of 1942, Mintmark A, copper, silver-plated, which was struck in normal size and with the customery edge engraving of the German 5 Reichsmark pieces in Berlin after a design by the medalist Goetz.

One piece was presented to Hitler in his headquarters Wolfschanze by the Director of the Monetary System in 1942, Herr v.P. As the widow of Herr v. P. vouches, Hitler said about the presentation that his head should appear on the German coins after the final victory. This pattern is still in existence today in the above mentioned hands.

A total of 4 pieces were struck...."