Opiniom SS ribbon bar

[Scott C.]

Show it. If you're confident in it's provenance, then naysayers shouldn't bother you.

[J C Gray]

I have an original stitched ribbon bar for the 25 yr

Why would a 25year SS-DA device, stitched or otherwise, appear on a ribbon bar?

[McCulloh]

"The number of SS medals LS medals awarded was tiny and mostly to Allgemeine SS men."

yup.

[McCulloh]

The SS-DA wasn't awarded to the Allgemeine-SS...only VT, TV and JS.

...and in 1942/43 where were most of these men? Have you had a look at Mike Millers' SS officer CDs? I looked at this a few years ago and came to the conclusion that apart from a few specialists (notably Drs.) most of these guys were not Waffen SS but doing other things by 42/45.

[Peter J.]

yup.

Now I'm confused. This e-mail notification came up at 01.42 and for some reason isn't showing here:


"yup. Only to very specific people. Read the regulations. There was an article about this in
the SS veterans magazine in the 1970 s too.
A surprising number of known awardees seem to have spent time at Dachau."

Would that be as inmates or guards? The reason for this stupid question is simple, as guards
they would qualify as Totenkopfverbände and that also corresponds to the info found in i.g.
Angolia's book. I haven't seen the actual regulations, but I'm sure someone can help out. Just
want to know if the scenario with VT, TV and JS is yet another misconception, like many
other things that eventually have been proven wrong.

cheers
Peter



</pre>

[McCulloh]

Guards obviously...or at the training camps. Have a look at this topic at the Axis Research forum.

[J C Gray]

...and in 1942/43 where were most of these men? Have you had a look at Mike Millers' SS officer CDs? I looked at this a few years ago and came to the conclusion that apart from a few specialists (notably Drs.) most of these guys were not Waffen SS but doing other things by 42/45.

Maybe so, but as the awarding of the 1st. and second grades of the SS-DA was stopped in 1940, it isn't really relevant where they ended up. Service time in the Allgemeine-SS (or Police, Wehrmacht etc.) only counted if the proposed awardee subsequently transferred to VT, TV or JS.

[J C Gray]

I haven't seen the actual regulations, but I'm sure someone can help out. Just
want to know if the scenario with VT, TV and JS is yet another misconception, like many
other things that eventually have been proven wrong.

</pre>

Definitely not another misconception...here are the relevant regulations from 1938...

[J C Gray]

And a couple of other period references...

[Peter J.]

Thanks

cheers
Peter

[McCulloh]

My understanding is that SS LS awards continued throughout the war. Wehrmacht LS awards were suspended. Can you show me the SS LS award suspension regulation? Rick Lundstrom always said that they continued up until 1945.

[McCulloh]

Maybe so, but as the awarding of the 1st. and second grades of the SS-DA was stopped in 1940, it isn't really relevant where they ended up. Service time in the Allgemeine-SS (or Police, Wehrmacht etc.) only counted if the proposed awardee subsequently transferred to VT, TV or JS.

it's very relevant IMHO. SS LS runes usually means to me, thuggish anti-Semetic war criminal. Perhaps you have a different and more generous definition of Allgemeine SS than I do.

[Robert H]

As I posted once in 2007

Attached the Verordnungsblatt #289 der W-SS 1.Jahrgang 1940.

Further more in Verordnung 2.Jahrgang 1941 #449 "only the ribbon of the first and second class allows to show the runes on the ribbon". Further more I have no more docu about it. So far regarding original award documents for the 3rd & 4th class I have seen only for VT & TV members.

[J C Gray]

Thanks for posting the document again Robert.

You will notice that by now the regulations for bestowal are more specific than the previous two years ie. they now call for a minimum of 4 years service in the SS-VT or SS-TV and that in accordance with a verbal order from Himmler, dienstzeit in the Wehrmacht, Old armed forces and Police will no longer be credited.

[J C Gray]

it's very relevant IMHO. SS LS runes usually means to me, thuggish anti-Semetic war criminal. Perhaps you have a different and more generous definition of Allgemeine SS than I do.

As I have said; it is the service time before 1940 which counted towards the awarding of the 1st. and 2nd. grades, so it is not really relevant to the ribbon bar here in question (especially so if the device on the bar is gold).

As for the latter part of your statement/question, I am unsure whether this is meant as sarcasm or if in fact you are actually being serious, so I shall comment no further on said statement.