Deumer Social Welfare Medal

[Tom Yanacek]

Hi guys,

I bought this Deumer Social Welfare medal yesterday at a small military show. It's kind of ugly and dark gray looking, but it still has great detail for a late war example in die-cast Kriegsmetall. No doubt this medal was once attached to a Deumer display board.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Closer view:

Very distinct stippling of the cross on the front and high-relief lettering on the reverse.

[Tom Yanacek]

Just because a medal displays a casting seam does not automatically imply that the medal is fake. Some medals, like this Deumer-made Social Welfare Medal, were produced by injection-molding and will therefore display evidence of casting.

Best regards,
Tom

[Woolgar]

A nice example Tom

Nick

[Antonio Scapini]

Tome the medal is a very nice one in zinc, but IMO it is not cast, but die struck, and the line all around the thickness is the sign of the junction of the two molds.
I post the upper part of a die, just to explain what I'm saying.

[Tom Yanacek]

Thank you!

Thanks for the comments, Nick and Antonio.

Best regards,
Tom

Tome the medal is a very nice one in zinc, but IMO it is not cast, but die struck, and the line all around the thickness is the sign of the junction of the two molds.
I post the upper part of a die, just to explain what I'm saying.

Antonio,

I do understand what you are saying here. It is sometimes difficult to look at a medal and determine exactly how it was manufactured. I could definitely be wrong in saying this medal was die-cast. A visible seam around the rim of a medal is usually indicative or a casting, but it is not always the case. Other manufacturing processes can also leave a seam and it is important to remember that, otherwise we can end up labeling original items as fakes. A "seam" could result from misaligned obverse and reverse dies, but that was not the case with this particular medal. I can also see a seam, very similar to a casting seam, developing as a result of a die-forging process, where some excess material creeps into the junction of the obverse and reverse dies. So I do think it is quite possible that this medal was die-forged rather than die-cast. But definitely not struck as coins are. The material had to be either in a molten or elastic state when this medal was produced.

Best regards,
Tom

[Antonio Scapini]

I understand your point of view Tom!
I improve the thread with something more...

Usually cast medals were produced with their eyelet, because it is not so easy sold an eyelet on a cast medal. Metal coined/molded has a higher density than a cast one, and do a solder on the cast zinc alloy is difficult, because its melting temperature is low.

The "seam" is clearly visibile in this way in some other medals, for example I show one, from the Memels produced from BH Mayer. These medals are all coined/molded in bronze alloy.

[petopoint]

Super

Great example, Great thread. Love to hear multiple theories to further expand our knowledge. Good points raised by both Tom and Antonio on their respective research to formulate conclusive evidence.

[Volksgrenadier 44]

Well ive just been educated...Thanks Boys

Ross

[Tom Yanacek]

Usually cast medals were produced with their eyelet, because it is not so easy sold an eyelet on a cast medal. Metal coined/molded has a higher density than a cast one, and do a solder on the cast zinc alloy is difficult, because its melting temperature is low.

Hi Antonio,

I'm a bit confused now because your statements (above) kind of reiterate what I was saying in my initial posting. You do realize that my medal does have an integral eyelet? It is not a separately-attached component, but rather an integral part of the medal itself. So when you say that cast medals were produced with their eyelets, does that not imply that my medal was probably cast since it has an integral eyelet?

I have attached some additional pictures so that we can all see that this medal has an integral eyelet.

I also realize that an integral eyelet can be die-forged as well as die-cast. So, IMO, this medal could have only been produced by either die-casting or die-forging. The material had to be in either a molten state (if cast) or an elastic state (if forged). I see no other possibilities with this particular medal.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

one more picture:

[Antonio Scapini]

This thread reveals another time how it is important make good pictures.
Tom, looking at your new pictures is clearly visible this medal was made with a die-cast (pressure cast) process. Eyelet is integral with the medal, and this is really important to determinate which kind of process made it.

I absolutely agree with you.

I think it is important also to be able to recognize the way the medal/badge was done, it can make the difference.

[Rommel1933]

Very educational thread here Tom and Antonio!

Thank you, Scott

[jack1]

They were die stamped and sheared with integral ring in zinc.
Please see here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkJUK7gZSiU

[Tom Yanacek]

They were die stamped and sheared with integral ring in zinc

Hi Jack,

Jo Rivett and his microscope have for sure made some valuable contributions for a better understanding how some of these medals were produced. I for one have never held the opinion that any medal with an integral eyelet must have been produced by casting. I have always believed that an integral eyelet can also be produced by die-forging. If you read my comments in post #6 and #10 you will notice that I say how the medal could have also been produced by die-forging. So if you and Jo consider die-forging to be the "stamping" process you are referring to, then I am very much inclined to agree with you. I am still of the opinion that if this medal was made by a stamping process, the material had to be in a heated/elastic state and therefore I would consider that a die-forging. If this medal was simply stamped in a cold state I think that eyelet would be very prone to fracture, especially with zinc. Jo's video on the 1939 KVK2 is definitely interesting. But then again it is not an examination of a Social Welfare Medal. I do agree, though, that the method that produced the KVK2 could also have produced the Social Welfare Medal. And the drilling of the eyelet would have been even simpler on the Social Welfare Medal as there are no angular cross arms that get in the way of the drilling.

Best regards,
Tom