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**Gregorio Torres** · 09-12-2012, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Von.Burgdorf View Post

It turns out that this medal belongs to a friend of mine. And is the same as that of this post:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=617904&page=2

And this was your response:

Antonio is the master here, but in my opinion this is a copy of the Deumer issue (Straight G, type 4 in Scapini´s article). Look carefully in the back and you´ll find some traces of casting. There is a lack of details easily noticiable when compared with well known TR shamples of this maker.
Sorry Mariscal (Tendrás que seguir buscando, amigo mío. Un Abrazo)

Is too easy to put the brand "fake" on every item that you do not like without having this item in hand,but i think that is not a correct attitude.

I think you have a mistake. The medal comented by me in that thread quoted by you have nothing in common with the OB referred in my post in this thread.
Please take a look.

**Darrell** · 09-12-2012, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by antony.s View Post

In my book this is the only medal I clearly wrote there are not proof to prove this is 100% a good one. I write what's is pro and what's against. I certainly don't need your sarcastic comments to do a research. It would be better if you provide to give us something useful rather than commenting as a militaria professor.

Sorry Darrell, for the second time I don't need your sarcastic comment, if I say "Steinhauer & Luck" it means "Steinhauer & Luck", not fake. I'm able to do a research, and I know when to be 100% sure and when not. Maybe your researches can be useful, if you show them to us. Please, if you believe the S&L are fake, show us why...

Learn to be simple, there are too many professors, and until today the results of all these professors were that no one of them realized a concrete study on this medal. I breath a lot of envy instead of collaboration as it should be.

1) you didn't answer my questions, because you are not able to do it.
2) I never wrote to be in Angolia's book is an evidence that make this medal 100% original. So please, learn to read before write wrong words I never said.
3) Instead of writing unnecessary and sarcastic comments, provide something useful for research.

I'm not here to do a war, if you want to do it, please search another one. I'm here to learn and study. I don't care the rest.

Take it as sarcasm if you want (I am not implying that). I'm tired of people using assumptions and theories as facts. We've seen this in the past. One fellow was obsessed with making the Dotted DKIG an absolute no question fake. Look what happened to him (see the true definition of EGG on FACE).

As far as your # 2 Statement "2) I never wrote to be in Angolia's book is an evidence that make this medal 100% original. So please, learn to read before write wrong words I never said."

You in fact wrote this: "1) if not original, why did Angolia too use this one in '70s? In these years the "flower war medals" were common to find (today too) and their value was nothing..."

I applaud anyone writing material on items that have had a long history of confusion for real vs. fake. That INCLUDES you (whether you believe it or not). I guess things must get lost in the translation. I read what I read. If that's what you did not mean, then I appologize.

However, don't ever Patronize me ..... and put words in MY mouth thank you very much.

**Patrick W** · 09-12-2012, 07:33 PM

For the little its worth, I have no problem with this type of medal, 100% original IMO and you also find Austrian anschluss medals with the same B strike flaw.

**Antonio Scapini** · 09-13-2012, 04:23 AM

Darrell, my questions are not an assumption of originality, are question to wich we all have to answer.
No problems with you

, my research is endend, and this is the only medal we miss the ultimate proof. But as I wrote, only 4-5 persons helped me, and in so few collectors it's hard to find all.

I ask again to all the collectors community:

PLEASE IF YOU HAVE A MEMEL CONTACT ME for give me weight and measurements.
Even if you have a Memel or a Flower war medal with the "OB-38".
If you find a medal bar with a Memel, CONTACT ME AGAIN!

Maybe this time we can definitively close this research.

@ Patrick W: I'm with you. There are some fakes, but for me this medal can be good too.

**Antonio Scapini** · 09-13-2012, 08:42 AM

I forgot my email adress: stralight_staff@libero.it

**Gregorio Torres** · 09-13-2012, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Patrick W View Post

For the little its worth, I have no problem with this type of medal, 100% original IMO and you also find Austrian anschluss medals with the same B strike flaw.

I have the same oppinion
On the other hand, you can find even the Sudeten medal with this exact flaw, and nobody say that these (austrian or sudeten) are fakes.

**VonPeter** · 09-13-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Gregorio Torres View Post

I have the same oppinion
On the other hand, you can find even the Sudeten medal with this exact flaw, and nobody say that these (austrian or sudeten) are fakes.

Nobody? Are you sure about that? I´m pretty sure you are wrong there.

**Gregorio Torres** · 09-13-2012, 10:31 AM

Well Peter, if you can find some of these "fakes" for sale, I´m very happy paying double price for them than for an usual Sudeten or Austrian anexation medal. So I could pay 70 euros for an OB Sudeten medal and 140 for an Austrian one.
Very good chance to fool to me selling me fakes for double price than an original.

**VonPeter** · 09-13-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Gregorio Torres View Post

Well Peter, if you can find some of these "fakes" for sale, I´m very happy paying double price for them than for an usual Sudeten or Austrian anexation medal. So I could pay 70 euros for an OB Sudeten medal and 140 for an Austrian one.
Very good chance to fool to me selling me fakes for double price than an original.

I´ve clearly said that I would never buy B-medals so obviously I have none to sell. But if I hade any they would be in the mail to you five minutes ago.

But Im sure you can find some from a dealer, have you tried snyders treasures? He may have some.

Just out of curiosity, why would you pay twice the worth of an original for this medals? Just to make a point? Sounds stupid to me...

/peter

P.S. I found a memel B-medal you can buy for 150 Euro from wellknown fake seller Nordwind on militaria 321. Good price for a nice memel with a B, right?
https://www.militaria321.com/auktion...tionID=6110837

**Antonio Scapini** · 09-13-2012, 12:06 PM

This is clearly a well known "Mask fake" (or "Rettenmeyer" fake as I call in my book), with the new addition of these letters! You can find these fakes for 10-15$.
This is a new fake to make the old fake Memel more credible! Good find Peter, today I've found me too 2 new fakes on market!
But these are really far from the "originals" "OB-38"...

Attached Files

70354-6045-1-W.jpg (61.9 KB, 236 views)

**VonPeter** · 09-13-2012, 01:28 PM

Here is a pic of the one Nordwind is selling for 150 euro.

And here is a memel that Weitze is selling for 50 Euro (as a repro).

https://www.weitze.net/detail/08/Mem..._182408_e.html

Clearly not the same but both are fake B-medals. Atleast to me they are fakes.

/peter

**Gregorio Torres** · 09-13-2012, 01:44 PM

Quite curious. Several fakers making fakes of a "fake". These medals, both, have nothing in common with an authentic BO medal. Take a look and compare.
Peter... I´m looking for the BO variant of the Sudeten and the Austrian medals to increase and improve my collection of flowers campaign decorations. You can be sure that I´m not jocking. If somebody have this variant availabel I´ll pay the double than for other maker´s medals. From my point of view, this is a Steinhauer variant with a very curious and scarce die flaw, sincerely, but I respect your option if you don´t like them.
Regards from Spain

**speedytop** · 09-17-2012, 01:17 PM

Hi Kenneth,

"... if UWE would provide copies of the catalogs that are stirring the pot. Plese do this!"

This is a part of my answer to your personal message.
11-02-2010, 08:06 PM
"Hi Kenneth,
I don't have such sale catalogues.
...
There is one picture from a Deumer catalogue, posted by the reputable German collector and dealer Uwe Bretzendorfer in the German forum SDA.
...
There is one picture from a 1940 Schickle catalogue, see GMIC ...
Gordon Williamson sent me a picture with a better resolution."

I wrote it in some threads, that I don't have the catalogues, unfortunately.
And I don't have "something more".
I don't like it, to write always the same several times.

My link to the SDA:
I'm not the owner of the pictures of the medal bar in that thread. And there are not only these pictures, it is the complete discussion about originals and not originals of Memelland medals and other Third Reich decorations, fixed on this definitely post war medal bar (post 1953) from Sedlatzek, complete 60 Posts.
It is a medal bar with two medals, 1. Oktober 1938 (Sudetenland with bar Prager Burg) and the Memelland medal, the medal bar in a cardboard box with a Sedlatzek stamp (seit 70 Jahren Friedrich Sedlatzek ...) and a cloth maker mark from Sedlatzek on the back of the medal bar (Fr. Sedlatzek KOCHEL OBB).
A complete matching set!
In the price list No. 7 [!] from 1956 (Seit 70 Jahren Friedrich Sedlatzek) you can find the "flower war" medals on page 2, each for 3,50 DM, the "Pragerspange" for 1,50 DM, additional some assembling costs.

If one is really interested in this problem, please sign in, read it and have a look on the pictures. There are no costs.

Uwe

**manu1972** · 09-25-2012, 02:19 PM

Memel good!

This is a exemple of ¿ Steinhauer Lück?. Is original??
Thanks you veru much

Greats.

**Antonio Scapini** · 09-25-2012, 06:41 PM

Manu the Memel you posted is a fake.

Uwe, I'm interested, because in last weeks I've found some more evidences about other fakes.
I changed my mind about the B-Memel several times; at the beginning I thought it was done from Souval, but after I found some L/58 Memel and I'm sure Souval made them post war using the same dies of the "B" Memel, but not "the original" B-Memel. Too much differences between the "first" and the "second" B-Memel production.

Please let me know where I can find the evidences you wrote. Also in PM. However all we know to be sure is not enough a medal bar...
If I find some evidences I can add them and finally close the chapter about the fakes.
Thanks.

PS: I have all the period catalogs known, and them all are showed in my book.

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