Medal bar question

[Peter J.]

I´ve got this 2-piece medal bar and I could use some help to id
the cross with the austrian maker. The Wehrmacht DA shows holes
from an eagle-device, but obviously it has fallen off and someone
tried to glue it on instead. What can I say .

KR
Peter

[Peter J.]

reverse

[Rick Research]

That's OK-- when you remove the INCORRECT Wehrmacht 4 and replace it with the CORRECT Wehrmacht 12, might as well fix it all the way with a never mounted example of the German 12 years medal and ribbon eagle.

That is the M1934 Austrian 1st Republic Bundesheer enlisted ranks long service cross for 5 years. The next class up was for 12 years. Per post-Anschluss regulations, with double Wehrmacht awards being worn for the 12, 18, and 25/40 years long service awards, if a lower grade AUSTRIAN military long service cross had already been bestowed before March 1938, it was to be worn as the second in the pair after the GERMAN higher grade, as here-- if the correct medal in first place had been left as a 12.

Except for some idiot swapping the Wehrmacht 12 for a 4 (that ring line looks glued too ) this is EXACTLY what a career NCO from Austria would have worn 1938-40ish.

The early 1930s Austrian Bundesheer was so much smaller than the German Reichsheer that these awards do not often show up in medal bars and ribbon bars after 1938.

Easily repairable, and then will be a very nice example.

[Peter J.]

Rick, I´m amazed over that quick and elaborate answer. I grasp the
first part about precedence, but not whether this combination is
possible or not. If this guy served in the Austrian Bundesheer, recieved
his 5 years cross in let´s say 1935, could than the only option for a
second award be the 12 years cross or could he wear both the 5 years
cross and the 4 years simultaneously just for show off?
The medal is sewn on in the same fashion as the cross and it´s not
glue around the ring. It´s some other miscolouration visible also on
other parts of the ribbon.

KR
Peter

[Rick Research]

This pair IS possible, but ONLY with a Wehrmacht 12 and this V. I am not sure, but think if he held the Austrian XII, he would have EXCHANGED that for the Wehrmacht 12, but continued to wear his V because the Wehrmacht wore 12+ as pairs.

The 1936 Wehrmacht long service awards were last awarded in 1940, late processing for awards "in the paperwork" when the war started 1 September 1939. There were NO awards made after those. So if he had not made 12 years time by 1939, he could only have worn the V alone-- and would NOT have received a Wehrmacht "4" instead, since that was for fewer years.

So this was most likely a 1939 pair, from just before WW2 started, for a career Austrian NCO with 12 to 17 years of service as of 1939: an Oberfeldwebel or the like.

IF that "4" is sewn there from the period, then HE was just as confused as we are! Period MISTAKES were made-- I have seen German groups where the IMPERIAL long services to military personnel that SHOULD have been REPLACED by Wehrmacht ones were worn WITH them-- so THREE German military long service awards! WRONG... but done at the time. It is possible that has happened here-- but contrary to regulations!!!

[Rick Research]

This is what the Regulations of 1940 said:

"Wehrmachtsangehörige, die Inhaber eines österreichischen Militärdienstzeichens sind, tragen nur die zuletzt verliehene Dienstauszeichnung der Wehrmacht vor dem österreichischen Militärdienstzeichen."

Wehrmacht members who are holders of an Austrian military long service award, wear only the last awarded long service award of the Wehrmacht before the Austrian military long service award.

So I suppose it would be possible, reading this VAGUE sentence, that a Wehrmacht "4" MIGHT have been awarded-- even though a LOWER award-- after a "V" to a holder of that Cross. And though the GERMAN regulations were quite clear that 4 was worn alone, 12 and 4 together, 18 and 4 together, and 40/25 and 12 together, there might be a strange "wiggle room" for somebody to wear what amounted to TWO "4s" as here.

As equally plausible, from the one line regulation, if a WW2 military retread held an IMPERIAL Austrian military long service cross, then he could have worn something like a Wehrmacht 25 with the K.u.k. XXV or a Wehrmacht 12 with a K.u.k. XII But I have never encountered a single group like that.

The Bundesheer/Wehrmacht groups turn up so infreqently I can't say-- the "usual" few encountered are 12s with Vs. I have never seen award paperwork or Wehrpass entries for these BH/WM groups. Even there, we often find OTHER Austrian 1st Republic awards that had been banned 1938-45 dutifully entered in Wehrpasses... and on several occasions in these Forums, WORN "illegally" on ribbon bars etc from WW2.

[Peter J.]

Rick, thanks a lot . I really appreciate you taking the time to
enlighten me. It´s getting late, but I´ll give you a shot at another
austrian tomorrow .

KR
Peter