Scary 22 Juli 1944 Wound Badge Repro

[Herr Register]

Craig,

To say you listed that turd as a "teaching tool" was ok, except for one thing........THE PRICE!!! You go against everything we try to establish
here. You tried to polish a turd and find a sucker to put money in your pockets.
But guess what.........even if you polish a turd, it still smells like $HIT!!!

Don't go trying to act all educational now, offering pics by email, just because you got noticed commiting a fraud. I do say fraud, because it is a moral fraud.

Get a life, bud.

[Jens]

J think we should think of the future collectors in coming generations. Some will defintetely have a problem identifying this reproduction as such.

J wouldnt have the sligthest problem with this item if it was stamped reproduction, even though J personally would use 1500 $ in a other way !

J ( and that is of course my opinion, others may have another) would rather own a genuine 1957 wound badge than this !

Best Jens

[mott5ranch]

Does any of this really matter? Craig posted a high end award as a copy. He also posted it so we could see the differences. I think his honest up front approach is like a breath of fresh air. Some say he should not sell this because someone will attempt to pass it off decades from now as the real deal. These bad boys are being made (as we post here) in a limited addition. They will soon be everywhere. Craig bought ONE to sell as it is . . . a well made copy. Regardless of what may or may not happen later, we all learned. We now know a little more.

It seems to me Craig let the cat out of the bag as far as serious collectors being taken. We all now know these wound badges are getting copied better and better as time rolls on. We can thank Craig for our education.

Some of you guys asked, "Who would buy a copy, a fake, in the first place?" Well, there are many of us who understand that there are many badges that are impossible to aquire, but we would like to have a "filler" to see and show to others that find our collections interesting.

I have four or five obvious high end copies. Three were bought as copies and two I was burned on, but in reality I was not educated. It was before the forum. Here is a picture of my high end CCCP (USSR) copy. I paid a few hundred bucks for it. I knew it was a copy! I wanted it. There are less than a dozen real ones ever awarded with diamonds, rubies, gold and platinum. NO WAY would I ever get one, but I have an exact copy. It's fun to handle and pass around and discuss what the real McCoy would be like. It also fills a nice space in my case with the real lower end common awards. I show my medal cases to history classes at my high school and college.

Copies are nice teaching tools. When we cannot have a real one a fake will do because they are pretty. It's like going to a strip club. We see fakes dancing around the brass pole and we still smile. "Put your hands together and clap for these lovely ladies . . . . . remember to tip these girls because they work for tips and tips alone!"

Here is my copy CCCP award.

[Brian S]

Gary, when you're right, by golly you ARE right.

In the spirit of doing what's best, I want to make up for my bad behavior and offer the collecting community an opportunity to own this Pilot Observer Badge for $2,500. As you can see, it is a beauty, it's cased and we know most of you will never see much less own a real one. So here's a filler you can be proud of. Learn, enjoy. PM me with your VISA numbers, thanks guys.

(Yes, it's not real, it's a museum copy quality piece.)

[Craig Gottlieb]

Joe - Please educate me. Why don't you instruct me on the items that I am selling that are so out of line with regard to price. Please provide references where I can see the same items at fractions of their cost. I would like to buy them. I would like to buy them all. I assure you that if you can find the quality, original merchandise that I offer at "fractions of my asking price" that I will face stiff competition at the sale from other dealers.

In fact, print out this coment, that "The real tragedy is that you have become a money changer and messenger for others on your medals without doing your homework." Print it out, Joe, and I'll ask a mutual friend to bring it up to you the next time you two speak. When you speak with him, ask him about the other "foul" that you think I made.

I do more homework than you care to imagine. I have a very extensive library which I have purchased. I spend a lot of time learning in person from others handling merchandise, and seeing what separates a nice badge from an extraordinary one. As that individual - he will confirm this. I enjoy respect from people you respect, so pick up the telephone and ask around. The irony is that I was the subject of what has basically come down to a witch hunt, when there are wound badges JUST LIKE THIS ONE being sold as original on other websites! It's laughable really. I'm done with this. Again, thank you sincerely for the people who choose not to nitpik and cajole, but to share in the learning experience.

[Craig Gottlieb]

Brian: Is the reproduction available currently on the market, and if so, at what price can I find it on other websites. I'm very curious. See, the item I was offering is not available currently anywhere else, and is a very good copy of a $30,000 piece. Yours is a copy of a $4000 to $5000 piece, and is 50% of the price. So your offering, albeit noble, is a bit different. But I do enjoy the humor in it. and I'm sure you see the difference. Look foward to you letting me know if that copy is available elsewhere, and if not, if there is a good decent record established of what these copies sell for.

[Brian S]

OK, dealer discount, only $500! But that's as low as I go

[Joseph D'Errico]

Joe - Please educate me. Why don't you instruct me on the items that I am selling that are so out of line with regard to price. Please provide references where I can see the same items at fractions of their cost. I would like to buy them. I would like to buy them all. I assure you that if you can find the quality, original merchandise that I offer at "fractions of my asking price" that I will face stiff competition at the sale from other dealers.

In fact, print out this coment, that "The real tragedy is that you have become a money changer and messenger for others on your medals without doing your homework." Print it out, Joe, and I'll ask a mutual friend to bring it up to you the next time you two speak. When you speak with him, ask him about the other "foul" that you think I made.

I do more homework than you care to imagine. I have a very extensive library which I have purchased. I spend a lot of time learning in person from others handling merchandise, and seeing what separates a nice badge from an extraordinary one. As that individual - he will confirm this. I enjoy respect from people you respect, so pick up the telephone and ask around. The irony is that I was the subject of what has basically come down to a witch hunt, when there are wound badges JUST LIKE THIS ONE being sold as original on other websites! It's laughable really. I'm done with this. Again, thank you sincerely for the people who choose not to nitpik and cajole, but to share in the learning experience.

Well Craig,

I am not your enemy. Good luck !! Since you have so much reference material on medals better get reading.

Your also correct when you stated that I was becoming a money changer, but lucky for me I realized that all that glitters is not gold and I am glad to say that.

Best regards,
JD

[Frank Heukemes]

Yours is a copy of a $4000 to $5000 piece,

Whoa! Your prices are your prices Craig, but please do not confuse new collectors by quoting them as if they were common market practice. A P/O badge (in Tombak and a first pattern Juncker to top it) can be bought from Detlev Niemann for 1500.- EUR whenever he has one (prices observed in 2004).

[Craig Gottlieb]

Sorry, Frank, if I was confusing people. Such was not my intention. I was assuming in my comment a mint GWL or mint Junker in the box, which would be a steal at 2000 Euro. Yes, indeed, Gailen David just had a P/O on his website that sold for UNDER $2000, so what you say is entirely correct. Comparing P/O badges to P/O badges is often like comparing apples to oranges. This is a serious question . . . if Detlev puts a mint P/O by Juncker on his website for 2000E, how long does it last? In the world of hard-to-replace inventory, if it lasts 1 day with multiple offers, then I would say that he priced his P/O in this case, too low. Look forward to learning more, sincerely.

[Larry L]

Sir,
If this was reference to my post, let me say that you are unfortunately wrong.
And if you read again my posts, you will notice, that I stated that I know it costs more than 40$ to produce these "museum copies".

L

When some one quotes a $40 fake, it goes to prove he has not seen a real badge let alone held one.

[rhudspith]

Educational Purposes

If a piece is put up on a site for education purposes then why does it have to have a price tag associated with it.

Why not put it up as not for sale as some dealers do

Rob.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

...We are all giving our critics on Graig(good or bad) about posting this badge on his web-site.

But at least he offered it as a "COPY", that's for me the most importand thing.
What he wanted for it, leads us to endless discissions....and we know California is an expensive part of the USA

But does the forum menbers realise that the gold 20 Juli 1944 badge shown in our own WAF-archive is also a FAKE...and more importand not even described as. I reported this years ago , but nothing happened since.
At least Graig stated his was a copy.

Just my two cents....
Pieter.

[Larry L]

Pieter,
You mean this:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/woun...es/20_july.htm
?
This badge doesn't seem to be original. And I believe that in this particular wound badge there are no variants existing IMO.

L

...

But does the forum menbers realise that the gold 20 Juli 1944 badge shown in our own WAF-archive is also a FAKE...and more importand not even described as. I reported this years ago , but nothing happened since.
At least Graig stated his was a copy.

Just my two cents....
Pieter.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Pieter,
You mean this:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/woun...es/20_july.htm
?
This badge doesn't seem to be original. And I believe that in this particular wound badge there are no variants existing IMO.

L

Exactly Larry, as fake as it can be, but used by our forum members as reference.
and I may believe a lot of them think it's original.
Pieter.

P.S. you've got two variations, an L/12 and a 2. There are some minor differences between them but I cannot go into detail on this, so please understand. The die-characteristics are the same for both.